Section 8? No deposit held. Unreported damage.

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    Section 8? No deposit held. Unreported damage.

    I'll cover the basics first..

    Property is owned by my grandfather who has asked me to manage the eviction of the tenants.

    Property is in England

    A 12 month tenancy was started on August 1st 2013 and is now a periodic tenancy agreement. Tenants contract says rent to be paid monthly but rent has always been paid weekly.


    No deposit was taken.

    Section 21 was served on 10/01/16 and is due to expire 6/03/16

    My grandfather has never inspected the property so I did so for him yesterday. During the inspection I had found that the grass hasn't been cut for either a very very long time or possibly never been cut. Cars and motorbikes parked all over the front lawn. Mold had spread throughout the house, this was caused by a roof leak which collapsed the ceiling last year. The tenants did not notify thier landlord (or anyone else) but instead just placed a board in the loft to cover the hole. This of course has now caused a serious problem and we are sending someone to fix it this week. Walls have been decorated and graffiti on them without landlords permission. Flooring is covered in paint from when they have decorated. Doors have been removed. The whole house is filthy.

    It is a very basic contract but clearly states that the garage and sheds are not to be used under any circumstances and are not included in the tenancy agreement. Yet they have placed furniture in them.

    Is there grounds for a section 8 to be served? Also how would we go about billing them for damages when there is no deposit and are they responsible for any costs for the collapsed ceiling and mild as they failed to notify thier landlord which resulted in a bigger problem?

    Any other advice that you feel would help is very welcome. Thank you

    #2
    You might want to get some professional support from a solicitor if you're trying to repossess and don't really know what you're doing (no offence).

    The section 21 is the best route to get them out - which is the priority here.
    The damage, while another problem, is less important than getting the property back.
    Do not try and complicate things with a section 8 notice.

    However, the dates on the section 21 notice look wrong.
    If the tenancy agreement says the rent is payable monthly, the notice is a minimum of two months and 10th Jan to 6th March is too short.
    It doesn't matter that the rent has actually been paid weekly.

    You (well actually your grandfather) are entitled to compensation for the loss in value of the property beyond fair wear and tear.
    However, the tenant can rectify the damage before they leave, they don't have to keep it in any particular fashion.

    I suspect that you'll have an issue with any claim, though, unless you have a decent inventory outlining the condition when the tenancy began.

    How long have the tenant's been living there.
    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by mchild96 View Post
      .....Section 21 was served on 10/01/16 and is due to expire 6/03/16...
      That's less than 2 months. Start again, serve fresh s21 TODAY with AT LEAST 2 months notice from service date! S21 always requires at least 2 months, regardless of rent payment frequency.

      You say "owned by grandfather": Who is named as landlord on contract?? Was/is an agent ever involved??

      As jp asks, when did tenants 1st move in (not necessarily date of start of tenancy...)

      Gas safety cert??

      You can serve s8 but with that much repair work needed (regardless of reasons & background) tenant will easily defend it: Nothing wrong with serving it mins..
      I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

      Comment


        #4
        The tenants have been living there for 2 and a half years. We was told by an estate agent that we had to give 2 months notice which is equivalent to 8 weeks. That's very frustrating. Would we also be able to serve a section 8 under grounds 13 'property deteriorated due to neglect' because of the leak which was not reported and then has caused a BIG problem? Also the breach in contract by using the garage? I also forgot to add that there was 2 bin timber logs by the garage that my grandfather was selling to someone for £800 and the tenants decided to cut it up and sell it for themselves. Would that help in anyway? We just want them out asap before they cause any more damage.

        Comment


          #5
          2 months is never equivalent to 8 weeks:

          The s8 grounds are "discretionary" so judge decides if you get possession: I'd not waste the costs but your shout - the chances of not getting a result are very v high.

          Nothing (other than morality) to stop up bribing them to leave v fast: If you do, do it calmly & politely, with a witness, to avoid claims of harassment/illegal eviction. Any visit, take a witness

          My advice - get s21 right, get them evicted, then go after damage costs but don't hold your breath with no inventory/photos.

          An s21 notice (or s8 notice) does not end a tenancy nor require a tenant to leave: You need to be patient & get good legal help. Do nothing tenant can use against you/granddad.

          Has granddad been declaring rent to tax-man, even if making a loss??
          I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

          Comment


            #6
            Two months is not equivalent to 8 weeks.

            Section 21 notices cannot be defended and will (if the dates etc are correct) simply allow you to apply to a court for a repossession if the tenants decline to leave.
            Section 8 notices can be defended - very easily in this case - by a claim of disrepair (say there was a bloody great hole in the roof for example) and a judge would decline to allow the repossession until the work was complete.

            The tenant will resist any claim for neglect on the grounds that they didn't report the damage on the grounds that the landlord made no attempt to inspect the property either.
            That claim could go either way, the landlord is obliged to keep the property safe, even if the damage wasn't reported to them, for example.

            You have a reasonable claim for a number of the items that you have detailed. The 2 bin timber logs (whatever they are) were, most likely, not the tenants to sell and so on.
            The grass you'll probably have to live with and the cars and motorbikes will go with the tenant.
            Mold can be tidied up.
            Decoration and graffiti is not fair wear and tear and compensation can be sought for that.
            When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
            Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

            Comment


              #7
              Yes the rent was declared to the tax offices.
              We can live without the money for damages ect but we want them out asap before they cause any more damage to the property.
              They have breached the contract by entering the garage to store items so a section 8 can be filed under grounds 12 and 13 (please correct me if I am wrong!!)
              I have just read online that if the rent is usually paid weekly then to give 8 weeks under section 21. If usually paid monthly then 2 calender months.
              If that is not right and I do need to give 2 calender months, if I was to serve this today could I also serve a section 8 under grounds 12 and 13? Would this mean that even if they challenged the section 8 and it got dismissed the section 21 would still be valid?
              Also when filling a section 8 do I need to apply to the courts first or would the tenants apply to court?
              Also would it be legal to offer them, for example, 2 weeks free rent if they leave at an earlier date?

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by mchild96 View Post
                Yes the rent was declared to the tax offices.
                We can live without the money for damages ect but we want them out asap before they cause any more damage to the property.
                They have breached the contract by entering the garage to store items so a section 8 can be filed under grounds 12 and 13 (please correct me if I am wrong!!)
                Yes you can but I'd bet you'll lose: Sorry
                ...I have just read online that if the rent is usually paid weekly then to give 8 weeks under section 21. If usually paid monthly then 2 calender months.
                If that is not right and I do need to give 2 calender months, if I was to serve this today could I also serve a section 8 under grounds 12 and 13?
                http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/50/section/21
                s21(1)(b) HA 1988
                at least one of them has given to the tenant not less than two months’ notice in writing stating that he requires possession of the dwelling-house.
                - 2 months. Make it a couple of days more, just in case: You can also serve s8 but I'd not take s8 to court..

                ...would this mean that even if they challenged the section 8 and it got dismissed the section 21 would still be valid?
                Also when filling a section 8 do I need to apply to the courts first or would the tenants apply to court?
                Advice here is only take s21 to court...
                ...Also would it be legal to offer them, for example, 2 weeks free rent if they leave at an earlier date?
                you can offer anything you like: They can accept what they like: In their shoes I'd want thousands - but you never know (it will take you months to get them out, sorry). I'd not offer "rent free" I'd offer cash:

                However, alternative strategy is evict s21, no offers, and explain to council why eviction so they will be "intentionally homeless" & all that that means...takes longer, harder for them.
                I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                Comment

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