Tenancy Guarantees

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    #31
    There are two signature pages attached to the tenancy agreement:
    COUNTERPART
    Signed by the Tenant:
    Signature: Daughters Signature
    Date 30.8.2011
    In the presence of:
    Name:
    Signature
    Date:
    Address:
    Occupation

    Guarantor page is as above but with my Signature and dated 28.8.2011

    All thoughts are really appreciated

    Comment


      #32
      The front page of the agreement reads as follows:
      This agreement is made on xxxxxxxx between the following parties:
      The Landlord Name and address
      and
      The Tenant. Name and address
      and
      The Guarantor Name and address
      Address of property
      Term of Tenancy 6 months (renewable)
      Rent per calendar month. £000.00 payable one month in advance with effect from xxxxxx
      Date rent due: 1st day of every month
      Bond: £000.00
      Rent review: The landlord reserves the right to review the rent every 12 months.

      Apart from The Tenant and Guarator Undertakings from a previous thread the rest of the agreement is Tenant Undertakings and Landlord Obligations

      Comment


        #33
        So there's nothing at all that:
        Defines what the Guarantor is guaranteeing or mentions the Guarantor at all?
        Says anything about the agreement continuing (it's odd that the agreement is for six months and there's a rent increase every 12, for example)?
        Says anything about how the agreement is "renewed" or ended?

        It's becoming more obvious why you keep getting differing legal advice, you keep changing what the agreement says.
        It's gone from this is all of it, to three more pages and the "rest of the agreement".
        When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
        Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

        Comment


          #34
          We need to see the whole agreement.

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
            So there's nothing at all that:
            Defines what the Guarantor is guaranteeing or mentions the Guarantor at all?
            Says anything about the agreement continuing (it's odd that the agreement is for six months and there's a rent increase every 12, for example)?
            Says anything about how the agreement is "renewed" or ended?

            It's becoming more obvious why you keep getting differing legal advice, you keep changing what the agreement says.
            It's gone from this is all of it, to three more pages and the "rest of the agreement".
            No nothing referencing the above.
            I thought the only thing that was relevant originally was The Tenant and Guarantor Undertakings. All three solicitors have seen the full Tenancy Agreement.

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by Lawcruncher View Post
              We need to see the whole agreement.

              Comment


                #37

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                  #38

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                    #39

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                      #40

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                        #41

                        Comment


                          #42
                          This is a weird agreement.
                          There are three parties, the landlord, the tenant and the guarantor (defined and identified in the counterpart).

                          The tenant and the gurarantor are liable for the rent.
                          So I think the landlord's argument isn't based on the notion of the tenant not paying and liability then transferring to the guarantor if the tenant doesn't meet their own liability.
                          The guarantor is already liable for the rent, because they've signed the agreement saying they are (along with the tenant).

                          There are two issues with that approach.
                          That's a really unusual arrangement and I'm not sure that whoever signed as a "guarantor" could have understood the implication, which is that they're not really a guarantor at all.
                          The tenant clearly believes they were liable for the rent, because they've made an offer to pay off the arears.

                          If the landlord wants to take the approach that the guarantor was intended to guarantee the debt in the more conventional way, they're going to have to deal with the issue that the guarantor's liability and role isn't defined at all.
                          Which means there are issues with consideration and certainty/intent.

                          More to the point, while the landlord was clearly delinquent in allowing the debt to run as high as it did, the tenant knew they weren't paying rent.
                          And they should be liable for any loss you suffer.

                          But basically, if £25,000 is being claimed you need a solicitor - because the landlord has one and they're likely to win by default otherwise.
                          They'll get you into court and tie you in knots.
                          And the legal fees will add up themselves, so you really don't want to lose.

                          The third person you spoke to who spotted that the agreement isn't helpful to the landlord's case is the one I'd suggest following up with.
                          When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                          Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                          Comment


                            #43
                            The drafting is very amateurish. The agreement does not actually say as such that a tenancy is agreed, though that obviously has to be implied.

                            Anyway, the key point is surely that the agreement is for six months and that the guarantor's liability (if there ever was any) does not extent to cover the statutory periodic tenancy.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Thanks for your information, it's all positive. I have a meeting with my solicitor early in the new year, what are the key questions I should be asking him. My main worry is that if I lose the case he registers an order against my property. Is this possible when he has allowed the debt to spiral to what it is now?

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by Little Swimmer View Post
                                My main worry is that if I lose the case he registers an order against my property. Is this possible when he has allowed the debt to spiral to what it is now?
                                Only if you don't pay the judgement and costs.
                                To save them chiming in, JPKeates, Theartfullodger, Boletus, Mindthegap, Macromia, Holy Cow & Ted.E.Bear think the opposite of me on almost every subject.

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