Ending a licence on the death of the landlord

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    Ending a licence on the death of the landlord

    My mother has a lodger.

    She is fit as a flea, but a couple of threads recently have made me consider the situation should she shuffle of the coil while she has a lodger.
    She is (in every sense) no longer living in the property.

    Presumably the lodger becomes a tenant, as the estate is now the landlord and the estate isn't resident.

    Is it possible to automatically end the licence on the death of the landlord?
    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

    #2
    Glad to hear mum is well & long may she be so.

    AFAIK no, on death of landlord in England or Wales tenancy/licence continues with "estate of.." being thereafter landlord until I guess probate. Intestacy is tricky: will & executors who can/will work together?

    One would wish to have on hand a Solicitor who understood family law & ll/t law.
    I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

    Comment


      #3
      I do not think that the licence can possibly convert to a tenancy simply by reason of the property owner's death. The personal representatives do though need to take care that they do not inadvertently do anything to create a tenancy.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
        ....She is (in every sense) no longer living in the property.....

        So presumably it is already an AST
        I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Lawcruncher View Post
          I do not think that the licence can possibly convert to a tenancy simply by reason of the property owner's death. The personal representatives do though need to take care that they do not inadvertently do anything to create a tenancy.
          I had the same thought, but can't see anything in legislation that differentiates the situation.
          All the conditions for a tenancy seem to arise.

          As regards, inadvertently creating a tenancy, even if the death of the landlord doesn't create one, if, say, rent is paid by standing order, the tenant will automatically pay rent to the estate, which, absent anything to the contrary, brings about a tenancy of some kind.
          Originally posted by theartfullodger View Post
          So presumably it is already an AST
          She's very alive, so that should read "would be (in every sense)...".
          When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
          Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

          Comment


            #6
            From https://www.gov.uk/rent-room-in-your...ding-a-letting

            If you die, a tenancy will usually continue as though you were still resident, until someone else takes ownership.

            So ut seems that legally your mother would become a ghost - resisdent but not alive

            Comment


              #7
              P Jackson, that is re. the tenant
              I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

              Comment


                #8
                A tenancy may change its status according to circumstances, but a licence does not. A licence cannot evolve or mutate into a tenancy. What can happen is that a tenancy can arise where there was previously a licence; if it does it is a whole new thing and replaces the licence. For a tenancy to arise there has to be something to fix on which shows an intention for a whole new thing to start. A lodger's licence is a contract and will be subject to the rules which determine how a contract ends on death of one of the parties. Since the nature of a lodger's licence is that it does not depend on the property owner personally providing such services as were contracted for I cannot see that it automatically ends on the death of the owner.The nature of the lodger's occupation does not change either. If it is truly a licence then there is no exclusive possession and exclusive possession not start just because the landlord has died. Theoretically the personal representatives should comply with the owner's obligations.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by theartfullodger View Post
                  P Jackson, that is re. the tenant
                  Everywhere else on the page "you" refers to the LL, so why would it refer to the tenant in that sentence?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by PJackson View Post
                    Everywhere else on the page "you" refers to the LL, so why would it refer to the tenant in that sentence?
                    Sincerely apologies, my stupid mistake, you are right I am wrong..

                    I understand the relevant law is s36 of Administration of Estate Acts 1925....
                    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...16/23/part/III
                    Which means named executors are in charge following death of landlord: Intestacy more complex.

                    But, IANAL.
                    I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                    Comment


                      #11
                      If a will is made appointing executors able to obtain probate then on death the estate vests in the executors. In any other case the estate vests in the Public Trustee until a grant is made. The important point is that the estate vests in someone. Who it is and what his capacity is is not relevant to the question posed.

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