F*@^ing fuming I am! All landlords & agents please read!

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    F*@^ing fuming I am! All landlords & agents please read!

    Right. Long story, cut short. Long delayed court date to decide on accellerated possession (tenant denied receiving notice, court then lost paperwork, same judge wanted to re-sit case, she went off sick!!!) and the landlord (my father-in-law as it happens, which makes it all the more awkward), who had no legal knowledge to challenge the judge, ended up going to court without me (I was on holiday). The bleeding judge threw the claim out because the dates on the notice were WRONG. But I think they're right! Notice was a section 21(1)b dated 30th November 2006 (and personally handed to the tenant on that date, which he signed to acknowledge receiving) to expire on 29th January 2007, the last day of the tenancy: - told you it took a long time to come to court! Now call me a twit if you will, but as far as I can see, the 30th November to 29th December makes one month, and the 30th December to the 29th January makes two months. So what the bl**dy hell was the judge on? Now my father-in-law thinks I'm a numpty and we've got to start the whole process over from scratch whilst the tenant has decided this result gives him carte blanch not to pay his rent and to sit tight! Family dinners are getting awkward. Help me! Have I done something wrong? If so please spell it out so I won't make the same mistake again. If I'm right, what's the appeal procedure and how long does it take? Can I claim the lost rent back from the incompetent judge :-)

    #2
    Did your notice make it clear that possession was required "after" the 29th?

    Please provide more details on the exact wording which was used.

    Comment


      #3
      Didn't a recent news story on LLzone said 70% of LL's get the dates wrong and have their cases thrown out?
      All posts in good faith, but do not rely on them

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        #4
        Hi Tahmur,

        I found it easier to start a new thread than find the old one!

        It would be easier if we could scan and upload low-res copies of paperwork to the forum. Does any administrator reading this know whether this facility could be made available?

        Anyway, wording that is important as far as I can see:

        'On or after the end of a fixed-term assured shorthold tenancy a court must make an order for possession if the landlord has give notice in writing under the shorthold ground (Section 21).'

        '...the landlord requires possession after the date stated in this notice or at the end of the period of your tenancy which will end next after the expiration of 2 months from the service upon you of this notice.'

        Comment


          #5
          Section 21 Notices

          Greengriff - the facility already exists for up-loading images. You will first need to scan your document and save as an image file. Then you should be able to up-load it - see FAQ

          Details of the recent piece on failing Section n21 notices can be found here:

          http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/FAQ/in...=30&artlang=en

          Comment


            #6
            From the information you have given, it certainly does appear that your notice was valid.

            Unfortunately, judges always try to find for the tenant, taking advantage especially if the landlord does not know the law.

            If your father in law had done some research, there was plently of case law which would have helped him win his case.

            Although, I know this is no use to you now.

            Comment


              #7
              Notice

              You don't appear to have deleted the appropriate notice option so it's not entirely clear which notice you are serving here: 21(1) Fixed Term or 21(4) Periodic.

              Plus I think there IS a problem with the dates. During the fixed term the tenant is entitled to a minimum of 2 month's notice - served during and up to and including the last day of the fixed term. The notice does not need to end on the last day of a tenancy period with 21(1) fixed term one as it does with a periodic notice.

              In your case, as I read it, you are giving one day less than 2 months.

              I guess on this basis the judge feels justified in rejecting the notice?

              It's vital that you get every minor detail right.

              Comment


                #8
                Hi Editor,

                Thanks for that. Does that mean serving the notice on the first day of the 2 month period means the tenant is NOT getting the full 2 months? SHould it have been dated the day before (i.e. 2 months and 1 day)?

                The judge said nothing about not having deleted the line to define the notice type.

                Comment


                  #9
                  I would always serve a the notice given at least 2 months and 3 days to expire on the last day of the rent period.

                  That way, you won't have any doubts over just one day.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I agree with the 2 previous posts.

                    Unfortunately, the judge was technically correct. You did not give the required notice, i.e. 2 FULL months, so the notice is therefore invalid.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I think in the future every tenant will get one on the day of move in, dated one month after to allow for the deposit protection process to finish.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        And if I was Mr Nalder of xxxxxx I would be most annoyed that you had posted my name and address in such a public way, in fact I might consider it harassement.......... Suggest blanking that out next time?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by greengriff View Post
                          I think in the future every tenant will get one on the day of move in, dated one month after to allow for the deposit protection process to finish.
                          Lots of discussion on this point elsewhere... I am still firmly of the opinion that its a bad idea.

                          Its a nasty experience having the court toss out the s21, but now you know. Why not just ensure the dates are right in the future?
                          Now signature free.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Notice

                            I think it is wise to give some extra days to be on the safe side as suggested.

                            Although in the case of periodic tenancies a tenancy period runs from, say, 30th to the 29th of the next month, in terms of the two months' notice, as I read it, it appears to run from the day to the day - 30th to the 30th.

                            So, for example, if you wanted to regain possession on the 1st of October (which must be a date AFTER the end of the fixed term, whether just one day or more) then you would need to serve your 2 months' notice BEFORE the 1st of August.

                            Some landlords serve this notice just AFTER the tenancy is signed, which means possession can be sought immediately after the fixed term expires. If, on the other hand notice was served on the very last day of the fixed term, then 2 clear months' would have to expire before possession can be sought.

                            It's all very pedantic, but once this sort of rule is set down in the Act it has to be followed to the letter.

                            You do need to make it clear which notice you are serving - the judge obviously overlooked this.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Lesson learned. Humble pie all round. Ho hum. :-(

                              Comment

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