PLEASE HELP: Notice Period of 60 days

[Bel]

The Office of Fair Trading have something to say about this, take a look at OFT356, it doesn't mention murdering people but it does have something to say about your earlier notice question on page 35:

"Notice not required for fixed term agreements

3.78 A tenant is not required to give notice to bring the tenancy to an end at the end of the fixed term. That is because a fixed term agreement comes to an end at the end of the fixed term, and no periodic tenancy will arise if the tenant then leaves. We appreciate that landlords will want to ensure that their properties are not left empty between tenancies, but object to terms that impose a contractual obligation on the tenant to give notice in order for the tenancy to be terminated at the end of the fixed term. This could allow the landlord to impose a substantial financial penalty on tenants who do not realise that notice is not required, by requiring them to pay rent for a period after the end of the fixed term. Terms such as this are not necessary to protect landlords from the possibility that their property will be left empty, as the law allows landlords to recover possession at the end of the fixed term by serving at least two months' notice, and they could do so where their current tenant fails to indicate when asked whether they intend to stay on. The landlord and tenant could of course still agree to a renewal of the tenancy even after such notice was served."

PS Please come back and tell us what the legal advice centre says.

Good point.

MrMc; at the end of the day it is the courts that decide who is right and who is wrong. Thats why the law is never certain. And even the courts get it wrong. So what hope is there?

IMHO the LL's clause is unfair (because the OFT says it is, but the OFT is not the law). Therefore my personal view would be not pay the extra rent, and be prepared to sue if it is deducted off the deposit.

These forums have threads where tenants have witheld the final months rent to save themselves the bother of court because they knew that the LL was likely to withold the deposit. Sometimes witholding rent can be justified. Unfortunately, the forum search does not always work.

Its better that you try to make the LL understand your position so that this can all be settled amicably.

[MrMcCombe]

Developments

Over the past few days, I've spoken to 2 solicitors and Shelter about this problem. The 2 solicitors initially told me that the 60 days held, but when I brought up The Office of Fair Trading report they started to hmmm and ah and asked me to get further advice. Shelter were very good with their reply. However, despite telling me that I shouldn't have to give any notice, there doesn't seem to be any law governing this and I'd have to appeal to the court.

I've been directed to contact the Leasehold Advisory Service and this will be my final point of call. It seems the law is very grey in this matter and I urge everyone who has a short assured tenancy not to make the same mistake as us - READ THE CONTRACT WELL BEFORE THE SIX MONTHS IS OVER!!!!!

[justaboutsane]

There is NO Grey area, you have a FIXED TERM which is over at the end of 6 months, therefore NO notice is required! You are following the contract terms!

[MrMcCombe]

I'm loosing hope...

Hi,

Thanks for all your advice on this issue. It's nice to see how many people care about it.

I've spoken to Trading Standards, another solicitor and read booklets on 'Regulated Tenacies' (92 HUG 221) and 'Assured and Assured Shorthold Tenancies: A guide for Tenants (97 HC 228A)', produced by the Department for Communities and Local Government. The booklets are a good read but don't cover the notice period in my case. Trading Standards and the latest solicitor, although respecting the OFT report, both say the contract will stand as the OFT doesn't have any legal standing!

I'm grateful for the advice from those who are telling me that I don't have to give any notice and the tenacy comes to an end when it ends, but I need something concrete to demonstrate this in the letter to my landlord (and if necessary, in a court if they take me there). As yet, after many hours looking we've not found anything legal to quote or refer to. Does anyone have any help in this matter? Links to sites, booklets, etc?

Maybe we're a test case and what happens to us will set a legal presidence. I don't know.

[justaboutsane]

AAAAAAAARGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

How many times... you have a CONTRACT... this CONTRACT EXPIRES.. therefore NO NOTICE IS REQUIRED IF YOU LEAVE ON THE LAST DAY OF CONTRACT.

[Stel]

I think you are worrying too much do you really think your landlord is going to risk going to court for 2 and a bit weeks rent rather than find a new tenant sooner? Is he therefore going to turn away any tenant who wants to move in on the 1st of Sept for instance? After all he cant claim rent from you and take it from someone else can he?
Confirm you will be moving out at the end of your contract ask to arrange a checkout time and make sure you have good evidence that the inventory is ok and any problems agreed.

[Colincbayley]

Sounds fair - remember, going to court costs mega-bucks whatever the situation. Most such things get settled without this kinda thing !

No it does not, a small claims action is a very cheap and easy process.

[MrMcCombe]

[Colincbayley]

[justaboutsane]

OK.. Let me put this into another context.

You have a job with a FIXED TERM CONTRACT. Contract states you must give 60 days notice to quit. You sign said contract.

At the end of the term do you stay on just because you have not given 60 days notice???

NO you leave! An AST is the same thing, its a FIXED TERM CONTRACT.. Therefore NO notice is required when it comes to an end.

[lorenzo]

I hope the current review of legislation covers this point. This is really confusing for all concerned and should be cleared up. This LL, whether he is right or not, is certainly using intimidation to force his hand and because of the lack of concrete advise backed by legislation, it's working.

[Bel]

If you want to, you could ask Tessa Shepperson at www.Landlordlaw.co.uk, for a fee. She is a specialist solicitor, edits the Lawpack AST and writes loads of books on residential tenancies.

OFT guidelines are not the law, but they can influence a judgement. They are there to encourage fair practice and discourage standard terms in contracts that undermine the rights of the consumer. Your right to walk away at the end of the tenancy has been undermined by their 2 months notice.

I would like to see you win this one.

[J4L]

I agree with bel here.

Don't be bullied, walk away at the end of the fixed term and sue them if they withhold any of your deposit.
Can I add though make sure that when you do walk that you have 'huge' evidence of the property's state when you do go, i'e take lots of photos because I'm guessing the Landlord won't 'check you out' properly.
I would take photos of the property, hundreds of them!! get to a pc, upload them and then e-mail them to yourself AND the Landlord! This will ensure that you have evidence of the condition you left the property in.
The fact that you've e-mailed them to the LL may make them wary of 'making something up' with regard to withholding your deposit.

Gareth

[Esio Trot]

This is the most important area to prepare yourself for in advance. Like other posters here, you are on strong grounds regarding your notice period. If it went to court, show the judge the OFT opinion and I'm sure it will be ruled in your favour.

• Look at your tenancy agreement again. How does it say the deposit is held? Landlords Agent or Stakeholder. This is important.
• Was a condition and inventory report prepared when you moved in that you were given an opportunity to review and comment on once in occupation?
• Have you done a Land Registry Search to check who is the true owner of the property.

Answer the above and you can be given more specific advice.

[MrMcCombe]