Inventory - Cleaning and deposit return

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  • jicms
    started a topic Inventory - Cleaning and deposit return

    Inventory - Cleaning and deposit return

    Could anyone advise what happens if there is a discrepancy between the professional check in and check out inventories and a property needs cleaning. The bathroom was not cleaned satisfactorily and due to insufficient time between tenancies I had to do the cleaning myself. How do I claim for my own time and cleaning (a half day including travel) from the deposit as I have no invoice to show?

  • Lawcruncher
    replied
    Originally posted by mariner View Post
    ...just provide reasonable estimate for clean at local prof rate.
    The OP cannot do that as the property has been cleaned.

    Leave a comment:


  • mariner
    replied
    You have the move in/out inpection reports, just provide reasonable estimate for clean at local prof rate. If T does not agree, put that amount of deposit in dispute and apply for free DPS ADR. Adj may reduce your estimate by x% to allow for fair wear & tear, prob less if T has made no obvious attempt to clean.
    What you will prob be awarded may pay for your actual time and materials expended in cleaning the property. No guarantees.

    Leave a comment:


  • jicms
    replied
    Sorry if this has all got out of hand and thanks for all the information.

    I definitely don't expect to claim for travel costs, living very close anyway. If I can't claim for my own labour cost and giving up half a day to clean then there's probably nothing I can do. It was a 12-month tenancy.

    I don't consider limescale build-up and mould, sludge/hair in the shower to be reasonable wear and tear and limescale removal is part of general cleaning if living in a very hard water area. The tenant doesn't agree with me or the inventory so I'll have to put it down to experience that I should go in immediately and not wait until the weekend to inspect.

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  • jpkeates
    replied
    Originally posted by Goss View Post
    The Tenant has to leave the property in a similar condition to moving in/ check in inventory less normal wear and tear. If it needs cleaning to bring it back to its original condition then you are within your rights to clean the property and bill/deduct the costs as long as they are reasonable.
    I think that you are actually claiming damages from the tenant for their failure to return the property in the same state of repair as they received it, less fair wear and tear.

    It is unlikely that 100% of the cleaning cost can be allocated to the tenant because (unless the tenancy was very short) there's bound to have been some wear and tear.
    So you can't expect to receive the property back as it was, or charge to make it so.

    If the tenancy agreement says something different, that would probably prevail, if a reasonable (and fair) term.

    You can charge your own time (but it's income with no corresponding cost for tax purposes), but you can expect adjudication queries about hourly rate and time actually spent,
    which would not arise from a "professional" company.

    Leave a comment:


  • theartfullodger
    replied
    This thread is Scottish but one deposit scheme seems there to take a sensible viewpoint:
    http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...-tenant-leaves

    Maybe check with the relevant scheme for this problem & see what they say??

    Leave a comment:


  • elniinio
    replied
    Originally posted by Goss View Post
    If it needs cleaning to bring it back to its original condition then you are within your rights to clean the property and bill/deduct the costs as long as they are reasonable.
    But your own time is not a cost, and cannot be recovered from the tenant.

    Leave a comment:


  • Goss
    replied
    The Tenant has to leave the property in a similar condition to moving in/ check in inventory less normal wear and tear. If it needs cleaning to bring it back to its original condition then you are within your rights to clean the property and bill/deduct the costs as long as they are reasonable. If T disagrees then they have the option of ADR which will support your claim mainly because you have a third party clearly documenting the check in and check out.

    Ask me how I know this.

    Goss

    Leave a comment:


  • jpkeates
    replied
    Originally posted by jicms View Post
    Could anyone advise what happens if there is a discrepancy between the professional check in and check out inventories and a property needs cleaning. The bathroom was not cleaned satisfactorily and due to insufficient time between tenancies I had to do the cleaning myself. How do I claim for my own time and cleaning (a half day including travel) from the deposit as I have no invoice to show?
    What does your tenancy agreement say about cleaning?

    You can only claim from the deposit things that the tenant agrees (or an arbitration service determine) - so that's a good start point.
    Unless the tenancy agreement says differently, you can normally only deduct from a deposit outstanding rent and compensation for the reduction in value of your property beyond fair wear and tear.

    So you can't automatically claim for the cost of cleaning - after a tenancy, you would probably expect fair wear and tear to require some cleaning. So what the tenancy agreement says is important.
    If you're claiming compensation for a drop in value of your property, you don't have to actually do any work to fix it at all; if you do pay someone to fix it, that gives a reasonable guide to what the value of the refurb was, but it's not definitive.

    The process should be, contact the tenant to highlight the discrepancy and agree the cost of rectification.
    If the tenant agrees, confirm the deduction to the deposit protection company and return the residual deposit to the tenant and get the funds from the protection company.
    If the tenant doesn't agree, use the deposit protection company's arbitration service to agree a value.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hippogriff
    replied
    As did I. Ouch. Focused on allowable expenses for tax.

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  • Wannadonnadoodah
    replied
    Sorry for the confusion. I mean't it was a tax deductible, not a deposit deductible.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lawcruncher
    replied
    Just did a search for Carl Bayley and see that "Carl is the author of a series of ‘Plain English’ tax guides designed for the layman and the non-specialist". What goes for tax does not necessarily go when claiming against the deposit.

    How far the landlord lives from a property he lets out has to be the landlord's problem and not the tenant's. Where

    (i) A lets to B and has a claim against B for a failure to do X and A lives nearby

    and

    (ii) C lets to D and has a claim against D for a failure to do X and C does not live nearby

    then

    the damages payable in each case have to be the same. If there were a principle that the landlord can charge travelling expenses it would have to apply to all cases and tenants of properties in Penzance who had landlords living in Durham would face bills for travelling expenses approaching 400 pounds.

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  • Hippogriff
    replied
    Ah, Carl Bayley's book told me that... it doesn't differentiate on the reason behind visiting the property - just that the travel must be exclusively for the 'business', you can't intermingle a trip to the supermarket in the same journey. So, viewings, inspections, re-signing documents, repairs, cleaning they'd all come under the same umbrella and no-one would ever care, so just claim all relevant travel to the property and maintain a log of journeys and put them onto your self-assessment in the "other allowable expenses" section, job done.

    Have you written a book that says something different?

    Leave a comment:


  • Lawcruncher
    replied
    Where does it say that a landlord who, in connection with restoring a property to the condition the tenancy agreement requires it to be left, travels from his home to a property he has rented out can claim travelling expenses at 45p per mile or indeed at any other rate?

    Leave a comment:


  • Wannadonnadoodah
    replied
    45p is standard business mileage upto 10k miles per year.

    http://www.sayersb.co.uk/tax%20rates/mileage.html

    Leave a comment:

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