Does a tenancy starts from signing date or moving in date?

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    Does a tenancy starts from signing date or moving in date?

    That is it really.
    If an AST agreement is signed on the e.g. 18th March and the document clearly states that the period is from 15 April and 12 months after that, when did the AST begun?

    #2
    Originally posted by Callan View Post
    That is it really.
    If an AST agreement is signed on the e.g. 18th March and the document clearly states that the period is from 15 April and 12 months after that, when did the AST begun?
    It begins on the day the tenant occupies.

    What you have before that is an agreement to create a tenancy, but not a tenancy as such.

    Why do you ask?
    'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

    Comment


      #3
      Tech it could be deemed to start when keys are handed over and you have the option to move in (occupy)< Just leaving 1 personal belonging in property (suitcase?) could constiute 'moving in'.
      However signing AST demonstrates an unwritten Contract to supply/occupy by both sides and the defaulter could be liable for breach of this contract damages, but not AST T&Cs

      Comment


        #4
        The tenancy starts when the tenant moves in.
        The contract starts to operate on the date that it says it starts, 15th April, but is binding when signed.

        So in your example, the AST should begin on 15th April, but if either party failed to perform an element of the contract (like moving in, or providing the property to move into) a contract breach will have occurred even if the tenancy hadn't begun.
        When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
        Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

        Comment


          #5
          There are two ways to grant a tenancy:

          1. By deed

          2. By it taking "effect in possession for a term not exceeding three years (whether or not the lessee is given power to extend the term) at the best rent which can be reasonably obtained without taking a fine". (See section 54(2)) LPA 1925.)

          Concentrating on the red and assuming that possession means occupation*, if a tenancy is agreed, whether orally or in writing not a deed**, for a term of three years or less, then there is no tenancy until the tenant takes up occupation. There is though still an agreement. As to rent, it is still due even if not technically rent since there can only be rent if there is a tenancy. All the other terms are fully enforceable as a matter of contract. Although the term does not start until the tenant is in occupation, for the purpose of determining when the tenancy ends the expressed start date still applies. Thus, if the agreement says that the term is six months starting on 1st January it will end on 30th June irrespective of when the tenant goes into occupation.

          In many, but by no means all, respects therefore entering into an agreement for a tenancy of three years or less has the same effect as an actual grant.

          Whilst there may be a case which confirms the contrary, I am not convinced that the mere handing over of keys amounts to taking possession nor do I think it is necessary for the tenant actually to move any belongings in.

          * "Possession" is defined in the LPA 1925 for the purposes of the Act as including "receipt of rents and profits or the right to receive the same". That means that if you grant a tenancy to A and then grant to B a concurrent tenancy for three years or less without using a deed, B will have a tenancy despite not having the right to possession in the sense of occupation.

          **Merely making a tenancy agreement a deed may not be enough. The agreement has to contains "words of grant".

          Comment


            #6
            If right to receive rent = possession then would a simple contract stating rent is payable 'on or before xyz' make the tenancy start the same date as the date the tenancy agreement was signed?

            Comment


              #7
              When the rent is payable does not affect when the tenancy starts.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Lawcruncher View Post
                When the rent is payable does not affect when the tenancy starts.
                thank you for response appreciate it. But if there is a 'right to receive rent' there must be possession?

                Comment


                  #9
                  There are two elements in place, the contract and the tenancy.
                  The contract will bind both parties, so if it says that rent will be paid on 15th April, that's when its due.
                  If the tenant isn't in possession on that date, the tenancy hasn't started, but the contract has.

                  If the contract says that rent isn't due unless the tenancy has begun, or is only payable if the tenant has possession, then things would be different.

                  The landlord can't refuse possession without being in breach of contract themselves.

                  Based on what you've written, if the contract was signed in March with a start date of 15th April, 15th April is when the contract starts.
                  The tenancy would commence when the tenant (or one of them) takes possession on or after that date.
                  When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                  Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                    Based on what you've written, if the contract was signed in March with a start date of 15th April, 15th April is when the contract starts.
                    Doesn't the contract start when it is signed, with performance obligations starting 15 April?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by MdeB View Post

                      Doesn't the contract start when it is signed, with performance obligations starting 15 April?
                      I would put it that the contract is made when the paper is signed - if that is what was intended or can be implied from all the circumstances.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by cymro123 View Post
                        thank you for response appreciate it. But if there is a 'right to receive rent' there must be possession?
                        That can only be the case where there are two tenancies of the same property at the same time e.g.

                        1. A grants a tenancy to B for 10 years and in year 1 grants a tenancy to C for 2 years of the same property. The second tenancy (a concurrent tenancy) operates as an assignment of A's reversion for two years, B has the right to receive rent and is in possession for the purpose of section 54(2).

                        2. A grants a tenancy to B for 3 years. The next day B grants a subtenancy to C which expires the day before B's tenancy. 1 month before B's tenancy expires A grants him another tenancy for 3 years. At that point B has the right to receive rent and is in possession for the purpose of section 54(2).

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by MdeB View Post
                          Doesn't the contract start when it is signed, with performance obligations starting 15 April?
                          That particular question is 4 years old - a new question was tagged onto an old thread.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Ted.E.Bear View Post
                            That particular question is 4 years old - a new question was tagged onto an old thread.
                            MdeB was quoting and replying to jpkeates' post from earlier today?
                            I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

                            I do not answer questions through private messages which should be posted publicly on the forum.

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