Section 21 Dates...A bit confused

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    Section 21 Dates...A bit confused

    Hi all

    I unfortunately need to service a section 21 (4) (a) notice.

    The tenant moved in on the 23 March 2011 on a AST for six months.

    I would like to post the notice to them tomorrow by first class post and confirm in a covering letter the 'Date Possession required'

    I tried a number of on line templates but they stated 'after dates' rather on a particular day hence my confusion.

    Would be great if someone could please confirm the dates I need to state and if there is a user friendly template I could use.

    Would appreciate any help or advice.

    Many thanks for your time

    Regards

    Mike

    #2
    You need to use the "after" date. If you use one that says "on", it will be invalid unless it has a saving clause.

    If you send one now, it will expire "after" the 22nd March 2015.
    Allow tenants to protect their own deposits. I want free money when they do it wrong

    Comment


      #3
      Thank you for a quick response

      The template I used states .......after Sunday 22 March 2015 and a number of references to alternative dates. So I presume I can gain possession after that date ?

      So in a covering letter I can simply state you need to move out by 23 March 2015 ! if that 'safe'

      Appreciate the help

      Thanks

      Mike

      Comment


        #4
        Don't put anything in the covering letter that refers to dates or moving out.
        If a judge considers that anything in the letter contradicts the notice itself, the notice will be invalid.

        If you use the text you are considering, you are actually saying that the tenant can stay after the notice end date, which would invalidate the notice.
        When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
        Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
          Don't put anything in the covering letter that refers to dates or moving out.
          If a judge considers that anything in the letter contradicts the notice itself, the notice will be invalid.

          If you use the text you are considering, you are actually saying that the tenant can stay after the notice end date, which would invalidate the notice.
          Thanks again.....

          This is the template I have used example from internet

          HOUSING ACT 1988 Section 21(4)(a)
          ASSURED SHORTHOLD TENANCY; NOTICE REQUIRING POSSESSION
          PERIODIC TENANCY

          Tenant(s) Name To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
          Tenant(s) Address Of: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
          Landlord Name From: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
          Landlord Address Of: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

          I/We give you notice that I/we require possession of the dwelling house known as;

          Property Address XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
          Date Possession Required
          After: Sunday, 22 March 2015 or after the Alternative Date set out below if the
          Alternative Date is different.
          The Alternative Date is the first date after this notice was given to you, which is:
          (a) At least 2 months after the date this notice was given to you, and
          (b) If your tenancy is for a fixed term which fixed term has not ended when this notice is
          given to you) which is a date not earlier than the end of the fixed term, or
          (c) If your tenancy is a periodic tenancy when this notice is given to you) which is the
          last day of a period of your tenancy and not earlier than the earliest day on which, apart
          from section 5(1) of the Housing Act 1988, your tenancy could be brought to an end by a
          notice to quit given to you by us on the same date as this notice.
          Today's date Dated: Sunday, 11 January 2015

          Signed Signed:

          Signed by Landlord

          Agents Address

          (If applicable)

          NOTES

          1) Where an assured shorthold tenancy is a periodic tenancy, a court must make an order for possession if the
          landlord has given a notice in this form.
          2) Where there are joint landlords, at least one of them must sign this Notice.
          3) This notice must expire:
          a) on the last day of a period of the tenancy
          b) at least two months after this notice is given.

          .................................................. ................................

          This is the text I was going to put in covering letter (example taken off internet !)

          Dear XXXXX

          PROPERTY XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
          NOTICE SEEKING POSSESSION OF YOUR PROPERTY

          Please find enclosed a formal Section 21 Notice, legally seeking possession of your above property.

          When you leave the property, you should take all your possessions with you and ensure the property is fully cleaned and left in the same condition as at the start of your tenancy.

          Please phone on the number below upon receipt of this letter to discuss your intended moving date and next steps and to arrange a date and time to carry out a final inspection, take meter readings and hand over keys.

          Yours sincerely,

          XXXXXX
          XXXXXXXXXXXX

          PS. Please be aware that if you not leave the property possession proceedings will be issued in your local County Court without further notice or warning.

          PPS. Court proceedings will incur substantial legal costs for which you will be liable and will be recovered under the terms of any County Court Judgement.

          Enc. Section 21 Notice

          .................................................. ...............

          Would appreciate any views

          Many thanks again for your time

          Regards

          Mike

          Comment


            #6
            I would simply send the s21 without any covering letter.

            &
            Court proceedings will incur substantial legal costs for which you will be liable and will be recovered under the terms of any County Court Judgement.
            May not be true

            That is all that is required.
            I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

            Comment


              #7
              For Reference

              For Reference

              http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...d-has-moved-in
              Fed up with nitpickers and rivet counters...

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by theartfullodger View Post
                I would simply send the s21 without any covering letter.

                & May not be true

                That is all that is required.
                Many thanks for all the advice....

                So based on the date given in the section 21 the last day they could be there would be 22 March 2015 ?

                Thanks again

                Mike

                Comment


                  #9
                  There is no guarantee they will move out on that date. You have given 2 months notice to quit if posted today.

                  If they do not move out you then need to fill out Form N5b from the HMCS website and pay the court fee of £280 to gain eviction.

                  There will be a waiting time for the court hearing date.

                  Did you take a deposit when tenants moved in? Did you protect that deposit and issue the 'Prescribed Information'? did you repeat the re-issuing of PI when the tenancy went periodic? All this affects the validity of the Section 21.



                  Freedom at the point of zero............

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by 45002 View Post
                    To make it clear, the Sec 21 should ONLY contain the name of the tenant on the tenancy agreement.
                    Allow tenants to protect their own deposits. I want free money when they do it wrong

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Mike777 View Post
                      ...So based on the date given in the section 21 the last day they could be there would be 22 March 2015 ?...
                      No

                      An s21, even if valid (many are not..) does not end the tenancy nor require the tenant to leave: It merely permits the landlord to start court proceedings when it expires..

                      Read any books on or done any courses on being a landlord??
                      I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by thesaint View Post
                        To make it clear, the Sec 21 should ONLY contain the name of the tenant on the tenancy agreement.
                        I have done two separate ones ....one to the tenant as named on the agreement and also her boyfriend how moved in (about 9 mopnths ago) and I presume contributing to the monthly rent.

                        Hope that's ok !

                        Regards

                        Mike

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by theartfullodger View Post
                          No

                          An s21, even if valid (many are not..) does not end the tenancy nor require the tenant to leave: It merely permits the landlord to start court proceedings when it expires..
                          Thank you for confirming

                          Mike

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Mike777 View Post
                            I have done two separate ones ....one to the tenant as named on the agreement and also her boyfriend how moved in (about 9 mopnths ago) and I presume contributing to the monthly rent.

                            Hope that's ok !

                            Regards

                            Mike
                            Originally posted by Mike777 View Post
                            Thank you for confirming

                            Mike
                            Only one of these can be used in the event of an application for a possession order. It will be the one that corresponds to the tenancy agreement the other one is useless.
                            Any advice I give is my opinion and experience, I am as you also learning.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Ok....undertstand.

                              Many thanks for all the comments

                              Regards

                              Mike

                              Comment

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