Thanks to oldies - a lesson for newbies!!

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    Thanks to oldies - a lesson for newbies!!

    Hi all, my first post on here and probably a bit different to most first timers, as the majority of people only seem to come here AFTER they have a problem!

    Firstly a massive thank-you to all the regular posters here who have probably saved me thousands of pounds, so THANK-YOU.

    Several months ago we decided to buy a house to rent out make a bit of extra money. Knowing nothing about the industry I realised I needed to do lots of homework, I found this forum and have been addicted to it ever since, looking at it several times a day and reading every post ever posted over the last few months!

    So armed with my new found knowledge off we went to look at a property with a sitting tenant. (we weren't necessarily looking for a sitting tenant, it just so happened that a house that suited our requirements did have a sitting tenant). The estate agent was more interested in selling us the house whereas I was more interested in the status of the tenant. After asking a few question that I had learnt from this forum it turned out that the tenant had never been referenced, never been credit checked, they were an unmarried Eastern European couple with 2 young kids, one of them had a part time job the other was a 'stay at home' mum. The property had never had an inventory or inspection of any kind. We never did find out if the deposit had been dealt with correctly (although I did ask) but I suspect there just was no deposit taken. We never got to the stage of checking wages, bank statements, immigration documents, tenancy agreement, etc, etc – there were just too many alarm bells ringing.

    I am not saying they would be bad tenants, the place looked reasonably tidy and warm with no obvious damage when we viewed it but I have learnt from this forum that the most important thing about renting any property is to get a good tenant and if things don't seem 'right' then walk away – so we did! When you are gambling with £200,000 you obviously want to limit the risks to the absolute minimum and I considered this to be too great a risk, although they may have been the perfect tenants.

    So we told the estate agents we weren't interested and then things started to get really bizarre!

    “That's OK sir, we'll just get the existing LL to evict the tenants and then you can have vacant possession for the same price”!!!!!!

    Now I know from reading here that
    a) Why on earth would the existing LL evict allegedly good tenants for the benefit of the new LL who hasn't even bought the property yet?
    b) As they were only 2 months into an AST it could take up to 9 months to evict them anyway.
    c) Why would they sell the property with vacant possession for the same price as it was with a sitting tenant?
    d) Why rent the place out at the same time as putting it the market to sell?

    There was just so much that didn't make any sense at all. However the estate agent, who had obviously never sold a house with a sitting tenant in it before, just didn't understand it (and was probably pissed off that I knew more about it than he did!). So if I had listened to the estate agent and gone ahead and bought it I could have been walking into a whole lot of trouble and be many thousands of pounds out of pocket.

    So I just like to say to all existing posters thanks again for saving me from a whole load of potential trouble and to all lurkers and new readers DO YOUR HOMEWORK first.

    EnGee

    PS Of course, maybe I've just become paranoid after reading all the horror stories here and I've actually missed out on the deal of the century.......I guess I'll never know......!

    #2
    a) Why on earth would the existing LL evict allegedly good tenants for the benefit of the new LL who hasn't even bought the property yet?

    Because they aren't selling the house to a landlord - they are selling it to a purchaser, what they do with it after the event is up to them.

    b) As they were only 2 months into an AST it could take up to 9 months to evict them anyway. - How long is the AST?

    c) Why would they sell the property with vacant possession for the same price as it was with a sitting tenant?

    Do you see more value in the bricks and mortar if someone is living there already?

    d) Why rent the place out at the same time as putting it the market to sell?

    Although harder to sell the landlord doesn't want to be paying the mortgage on a vacant property.
    "I'm afraid I didn't do enough background checks apart from checking her identity on Facebook" - ANON

    What I say is based on my own experience and research - Please don't take as gospel without first checking the gospel yourself.

    Comment


      #3
      For ~£100, join RLA/NLA and get benefit of free members helpline, online training modules and LL discounts, rather than rely solely on open public fora.
      You may get anwers to above Qs when you have a property to dispose of asap.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Wannadonnadoodah View Post
        a) Why on earth would the existing LL evict allegedly good tenants for the benefit of the new LL who hasn't even bought the property yet?

        Because they aren't selling the house to a landlord - they are selling it to a purchaser, what they do with it after the event is up to them.

        b) As they were only 2 months into an AST it could take up to 9 months to evict them anyway. - How long is the AST?

        c) Why would they sell the property with vacant possession for the same price as it was with a sitting tenant?

        Do you see more value in the bricks and mortar if someone is living there already?

        d) Why rent the place out at the same time as putting it the market to sell?

        Although harder to sell the landlord doesn't want to be paying the mortgage on a vacant property.
        These were really rhetorical questions, but as you ask-
        a) Exactly, that was my point, I would never expect the existing LL to evict THEIR tenants for MY benefit (although the estate agent did!)
        b) Don't know, was verbally told both 6 and 12 months, didn't bother to pursue it with all the other problems.
        c) No, I see less value with a sitting tenant
        d) Agreed, but the rent won't cover the drop in price (unless it doesn't sell for a year!)

        EnGee

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by mariner View Post
          You may get answers to above Qs when you have a property to dispose of asap.
          Not really looking for answers, just thought other people might be interested in my experience.
          EnGee

          Comment


            #6
            If you don't want answers why ask questions?
            "I'm afraid I didn't do enough background checks apart from checking her identity on Facebook" - ANON

            What I say is based on my own experience and research - Please don't take as gospel without first checking the gospel yourself.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Wannadonnadoodah View Post
              If you don't want answers why ask questions?
              As I said, they were rhetorical questions and I just thought other people might be interested in my experience.

              So to make it clearer I will edit my 4 'statements' without the question marks


              a) I don't believe the existing LL would evict allegedly good tenants for the benefit of the new LL who hasn't even bought the property yet
              b) As they were only 2 months into an AST it could take up to 9 months to evict them anyway.
              c) I don't think they would they sell the property with vacant possession for the same price as it was with a sitting tenant.
              d) It seems a bit silly, to me, to rent the place out at the same time as putting it on the market to sell.

              Hope that makes it easier to understand!

              Blimey I didn't think it would be so hard to thank people for helping me!!!!!!!!!!!

              EnGee

              Comment


                #8
                It shouldn't be difficult, it was just confusing as you put question marks at the end of things. Don't you think so!

                or to put it another way;

                It shouldn't be difficult, it was just confusing as you put question marks at the end of things. Don't you think so?
                "I'm afraid I didn't do enough background checks apart from checking her identity on Facebook" - ANON

                What I say is based on my own experience and research - Please don't take as gospel without first checking the gospel yourself.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Wannadonnadoodah View Post
                  It shouldn't be difficult, it was just confusing as you put question marks at the end of things.
                  OK Fair point!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I'm grateful to the OP for offering his thanks to the regular forum posters. I'm also sorry that some replies have been less than grateful. It's a shame that some folk are unable to recognise credit for a job well done and look for criticism in every response.

                    Thanks again to the OP and I'm sure some others will join me in wishing you well in your Landlord endeavours.
                    I may be a housing professional but my views, thoughts, opinions, advice, criticisms or otherwise on this board are mine and are not representative of my company, colleagues, managers. I am here as an independent human being who simply wants to learn new stuff, share ideas and interact with like minded people.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Darth Wookie View Post
                      I'm grateful to the OP for offering his thanks to the regular forum posters. I'm also sorry that some replies have been less than grateful.
                      If you're talking about me then I think you need to re read the thread and offer me an apology. OP came on, posted, asked 4 questions which I duly obliged and answered. No ungratefulness there, then the OP came back on and said he didn't want answers.
                      "I'm afraid I didn't do enough background checks apart from checking her identity on Facebook" - ANON

                      What I say is based on my own experience and research - Please don't take as gospel without first checking the gospel yourself.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Darth Wookie View Post
                        I'm grateful to the OP for offering his thanks to the regular forum posters. I'm also sorry that some replies have been less than grateful. It's a shame that some folk are unable to recognise credit for a job well done and look for criticism in every response.
                        Thank you for your kind words, I think Mr Wanna is just having a bad day!!

                        Yes, I did put a question mark at the end of each point but I thought it was fairly obvious that these were just the questions that went through my mind after hearing such a bizarre comment from the estate agent. I didn't actually expect them to be answered on the forum!

                        Maybe I just didn't word it very well. I hope this clears up any confusion over the 'questions'.

                        It's a pity this thread has got slightly sidetracked as all I was trying to do was thank the regulars and warn newbies to do their homework (by various means) because the so called professionals don't always know what they are talking about.

                        EnGee

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by EnGee View Post
                          the so called professionals don't always know what they are talking about.
                          But to be fair, you were talking to an Estate Agent. That doesn't mean he knew anything about Landlord & Tenant law.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by EnGee View Post
                            PS Of course, maybe I've just become paranoid after reading all the horror stories here and I've actually missed out on the deal of the century.......I guess I'll never know......!
                            Quite possibly!

                            Mariner's advice is spot on.

                            I have purchased a property with sitting tenant that I did not really like, she was dirty and so was the property but I was prepared to tolerate these issues because I believed the property was the deal of the century. 7 years later with same tenant, negligible outlay on my part and over £70,000 in rental income from her I am much happier than the day of completion.

                            In my opinion the property is worth more with a sitting tenant as long as your solicitor is a specialist in landlord law.

                            Good luck!
                            Long suffering Landlord.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by EnGee View Post
                              No, I see less value with a sitting tenant
                              If the tenant is proven to be on an AST and therefore evictable without too much trouble, it's not going to make much difference to the value of the building I would have thought (as demonstrated by the confusion here over whether it would increase or decrease the property's value!) . I expect the landlord/agent was keen to sell and having got a potential buyer lined up, offered you the same deal rather than lose you.

                              This isn't really a 'sitting tenant' though - that normally refers to a Rent Act tenant who is pretty much unevictable, and can even bequeath the tenancy to somebody else when they die - and that massively affects the value of a property.

                              Comment

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