Joint and Several AST

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  • Joint and Several AST

    If one party of a joint and several AST (4 tenants) leaves at the end of the fixed period (without giving notice).

    Would the other 3 just move onto a periodic tenancy?
    Would the departed tenant then have any liabilities?
    Would the AST be deceased as when 1 party of a joint and several AST gives notice to quit?

  • #2
    The answers are:-

    I have to put something outside the "quote" or else it won't post my reply.

    Originally posted by Energise
    If one party of a joint and several AST (4 tenants) leaves at the end of the fixed period (without giving notice).

    Would the other 3 just move onto a periodic tenancy? Yes if you want it to but see answer to your third question!
    Would the departed tenant then have any liabilities? Yes! The same as before.
    Would the AST be deceased as when 1 party of a joint and several AST gives notice to quit? Yes! - If one tenant gives notice then it automatically terminates the whole agreement when the notice is effective, so it really answers the other two questions, doesn't it?
    The advice I give should not be construed as a definitive answer, and is without prejudice or liability. You are advised to consult a specialist solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

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    • #3
      Thanks for your response Paul.

      Just to clarify,

      re; question 2, as I understand it at the end of a fixed tenancy a tenant can just depart without having to give notice and have no further liabilities,but in this instance of a joint tenancy that does not apply.

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      • #4
        Paul f - your answer to the third question seems inconsistent with your answer to the first - please clarify.
        Disclaimer: What I say is either right or wrong. It may be advisable to check what I say with a solicitor. If he says I am right then I am right, unless he is wrong in which case I am wrong; but if he says I am wrong then I am wrong, unless he is wrong in which case I am right

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        • #5
          The poster asked if the tenant left without giving notice on Q1 would it alter things and the answer is no as the tenancy would become periodic on a joint and several liability basis! In Q3 he asks if a new tenancy needs to be created if one of three tenants were to give formal notice of termination as that action automatically ends an AST. I thought it was quite clear the first time.
          The advice I give should not be construed as a definitive answer, and is without prejudice or liability. You are advised to consult a specialist solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Paul_f
            The poster asked if the tenant left without giving notice on Q1 would it alter things and the answer is no as the tenancy would become periodic on a joint and several liability basis! In Q3 he asks if a new tenancy needs to be created if one of three tenants were to give formal notice of termination as that action automatically ends an AST. I thought it was quite clear the first time.
            That is not what he asks in Q3 (although perhaps it is what he meant to ask). What he actually asks is "Would the AST be deceased as when 1 party of a joint and several AST gives notice to quit?" which I take to mean "Would the AST agreement then cease to apply as it would if one party gave notice .." But maybe I am misunderstanding the question.
            Disclaimer: What I say is either right or wrong. It may be advisable to check what I say with a solicitor. If he says I am right then I am right, unless he is wrong in which case I am wrong; but if he says I am wrong then I am wrong, unless he is wrong in which case I am right

            Comment


            • #7
              Yes lawstudent your interpretation of Q3 is what I was asking, apologies if that was not clear.

              What I don't quite understand is how the tenant departing at the end of the fixed tenancy can have any further liability as he is only signed up for the fixed period, this liability is being created by the other tenants actions of taking it into a periodic tenancy.

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              • #8
                Energise - your question raises an interesting point. Even though the departing tenant only signed up to the fixed period he also signed up to being liable for anything that might happen under a tenancy agreement which can continue in force after his departure. It might seem unfair that he is liable when it was the others who stayed on, but I suppose it is no more unfair than his being liable when it was the others who set fire to the mattress. For as long as the agreement remains in force (for whaever reason) no joint tenant can escape liability. It is therefore in the interests of a departing tenant to terminate the agreement by notice to the landlord and to his joint tenants.
                Disclaimer: What I say is either right or wrong. It may be advisable to check what I say with a solicitor. If he says I am right then I am right, unless he is wrong in which case I am wrong; but if he says I am wrong then I am wrong, unless he is wrong in which case I am right

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                • #9
                  Definitely got a point!

                  Know what you mean, but the tenants would only be able to walk-away from the fixed term without it going into periodic is that if all three left and surrendered their keys on the last day; in the event of one tenant leaving without notice then that tenant would be liable for the rent (to the two remaining tenants, not the landlord) until a replacement tenant could be found whereupon a new AST would have to be created.

                  The existing tenants would want to mitigate their loss and could do one of several things, but of course it could jeopardise their continued occupation if they were to give notice and the landord accept it without the offer of a new tenancy. I won't go into the options as I'm sure you all know what the possibilities are.
                  The advice I give should not be construed as a definitive answer, and is without prejudice or liability. You are advised to consult a specialist solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

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                  • #10
                    Is the girlfriend of a tenant who goes home to Paris known as the "French left tenant's woman"?
                    Disclaimer: What I say is either right or wrong. It may be advisable to check what I say with a solicitor. If he says I am right then I am right, unless he is wrong in which case I am wrong; but if he says I am wrong then I am wrong, unless he is wrong in which case I am right

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Your talents are wasted methinks!
                      The advice I give should not be construed as a definitive answer, and is without prejudice or liability. You are advised to consult a specialist solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks for your input gents, I have just found this on the painsmith website (link posted by Jayne) about this and it seems to say the opposite.

                        "At the end of a fixed term if one Tenant wishes to stay, but the other Tenant wants to leave, then the Tenant who leaves has no further obligations to the Landlord. Effectively a new tenancy is created with the remaining Tenant. A tenant does not have to give notice to leave at the end of the fixed term. If the tenancy agreement tries to enforce such an obligation it is likely to be unfair and therefore void."

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                        • #13
                          Not as clear an answer as you would like

                          I thinks Painsmiths view is a little acute.

                          As you say the tenant does not have to give notice to vacate the property at the termination of the fixed term. However, how can we refer to the tenant as an individual in a shared tenancy. The law makes no such differentiation.

                          What if the vacating tenant decided to move back into the property at a later stage. As no steps have been taken to terminate his tenancy other than to accept his moving out, the tenant could move back into the property with all the rights due to him.

                          In these instances we suggest that you make use of mutual agreement. Clearly it is not backed by statute but normally an agreement made between tenant and Landlord is stuck to.

                          I notice from other threads that Paul F is an agent? apologies if I am wrong. He will no very well the dangers of accepting at face value the explanations provided by solicitors or governing bodies such as ARLA. Often what is presented as fact may just be an opinion!
                          For the avoidance of doubt, I am not a solicitor nor a specialist. I have simply spent many years in the business and am expressing my opinions. I would urge caution to any individual using these forums as a sole basis for decision without first speaking to a solicitor.

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