Tenant is not paying me AND subletting!

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    Tenant is not paying me AND subletting!

    I have a tenant who is several months behind with his rent and we are going through the slow motions of evicting under S8.
    However, we have recently been told it appears he is subletting the property and receiving rent for it (though probably without contract).
    Is he likely to be guilty of fraud or similar? And if so, might it speed up the process if I were to go to the police?
    Any help would be appreciated.

    #2
    Going to the police - what crime has been committed? You will be accused of wasting police time - that is a crime.

    What actual proof do you have that T is subletting? 'Recently being told' is not proof. Is subletting allowed in the contract (read it and tell us as not all contracts are the same)?

    If you have a Section 8 underway you need to be patient and wait for a hearing or a possession order.

    Why did you let 'several' months late rent pass before action is a more relevant question?



    Freedom at the point of zero............

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      #3
      Serve a notice to go and inspect the property.
      You will then have a better idea of what is going on.
      Allow tenants to protect their own deposits. I want free money when they do it wrong

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        #4
        Grass him up to HMRC. It works. Made me feel better also.
        I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

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          #5
          Originally posted by Interlaken View Post
          Going to the police - what crime has been committed?
          Clue is in the question where I ask "Is he likely to be guilty of fraud or similar? ". I was hoping someone (maybe not you) could help by giving me some idea if this is the case or not.

          Originally posted by Interlaken View Post
          You will be accused of wasting police time - that is a crime.
          Again, not dramatically helpful. That's why I am asking for assistance finding out whether he might or might not have committed a crime.

          Originally posted by Interlaken View Post
          What actual proof do you have that T is subletting? 'Recently being told' is not proof.
          A bunch of Chinese people saying they have rented it from someone. Neither my agents nor I have rented it to them.

          Originally posted by Interlaken View Post
          Is subletting allowed in the contract (read it and tell us as not all contracts are the same)?
          No

          Originally posted by Interlaken View Post
          If you have a Section 8 underway you need to be patient and wait for a hearing or a possession order.

          Why did you let 'several' months late rent pass before action is a more relevant question?
          Not exactly relevant to what I have asked, but the answer is 2 months standard; another 2 because the tenant had previously rented other properties from my agent without problem for 8 years. So it seemed reasonable to allow the agent to try to sort it out amicably first. Then 4 months until the court date (of which I am 2 months in). Adds up.

          Interlaken, while you may be unbelievably experienced in such matters, others may well not be. They come on this forum to seek assistance. Maybe you should consider whether your answers will help encourage those in this profession to interact with the forum and maybe - in the future - help others; or whether your answers will just make them think they shouldn't have bothered.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by thesaint View Post
            Serve a notice to go and inspect the property.
            You will then have a better idea of what is going on.
            My agents have done so, but they have also changed the locks (in breach of contract of course), and although he can hear people in there, they will not answer. I imagine he spooked them when he first went in and my own tenant has just told them not to cooperate.
            NLA advise me that all we can do is advise the original tenant that he should not have changed the locks and that he must let my agents in. But he refuses to answer emails, texts, phone calls, or letters sent to him at my property or his work address - where they say he is no longer employed. He was renting previously for 8 years at different places so we have no "permanent" address to write to him at.

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              #7
              Originally posted by theartfullodger View Post
              Grass him up to HMRC. It works. Made me feel better also.
              Not a bad idea. At least I could threaten to do so!

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                #8
                Originally posted by MickyV View Post
                Not a bad idea. At least I could threaten to do so!
                Why only threaten? What do you hope to achieve by this?

                pm
                Before acting on forum advice, you may wish to consult an expert, someone who has all the relevant facts, and who accepts liability for their advice.

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                  #9
                  4 months to court date from application for s8 seems very long indeed. Which county court is that?

                  In answer to your fraud question - no, it isn't fraud and no, the police won't be interested. You can't legally speed this up, and need to be patient.

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                    #10
                    If your tenant is no longer living there (there are 2 sorts of subletting: 1. Tenant remains & subletts room: 2. tenant goes & lets whole place out) then it is no longer an AST (regardless of paperwork..) and thus S21 & S8 no longer apply.

                    Is there a clause in the contract to cover this (there often is..).
                    I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by MickyV View Post
                      A bunch of Chinese people saying they have rented it from someone.
                      Chinese whispers?
                      "I'm afraid I didn't do enough background checks apart from checking her identity on Facebook" - ANON

                      What I say is based on my own experience and research - Please don't take as gospel without first checking the gospel yourself.

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by theartfullodger View Post
                        If your tenant is no longer living there
                        How would OP know? If there's no contact or response from T, then he has to assume he's still in occupation?

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                          #13
                          If it were my property, I would tell the Police that I had squatters, and I believe them to be Chinese immigrants that were working here illegally.
                          Allow tenants to protect their own deposits. I want free money when they do it wrong

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                            #14
                            Thank you for all your suggestions. Just to let you know what happened in case it helps anybody in the future.

                            We put a note through the door, addressed to the tenant but not in an envelope so it could be read by the occupants. It said we believe he has moved out and would be entering the property to remove any items in 4 days' time unless we heard from him to the contrary. After a couple of days he contacted the agent who assured him that I, as Landlord, would be pursuing him for every penny, plus going to Police and HMRC about him unless he was gone in 48 hours. 2 days later the place was empty.

                            So money lost, but the property back without the need for me to attend court and then lay out on warrants etc. - I will try tracking him and going for a Money Claim for lost rent and court fees. Probably get nothing but of the last four I have pursued in this way I have had all or most of the money back on three, so there is always a chance.

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                              #15
                              Well done Mickey, good for you!

                              Yeah, I've got money back (some/all) from those I've taken action against also:

                              Go after the b*sta*rd, if only to ensure they don't think they'll always get away with it & get a CCJ stymieing future credit deals (loans, mobile 'phones..) and other rentals.

                              I'd still grass him up to HMRC: We pay tax, why shouldn;t he?
                              http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/reportingfraud/
                              I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                              Comment

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