Section 21 - never received

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    Section 21 - never received

    A friend of mine received a kebab leaflet by recorded delivery. Odd, but he didn't think much of it.

    10 weeks later his landlord applies for accelerated possession, and out of no where he receives court papers for eviction. My friend denied ever receiving a s21 notice, or ever being asked to leave. His landlord provides proof of postage of the notice, and strangely it was the same date the kebab leaflet was received. Looks like he sent a kebab leaflet instead of the proof of postage.

    Will my friend have to leave the property or will he have a defence? My friend isn't a nice chap and has been in arrears for several months.

    #2
    My first thought is it strikes me as a bit odd a LL would go to the trouble of sending registered post and enclosing a kebab leaflet instead of a notice. My feeling is you would have a fair challenge convincing a judge of it too. It also seems odd that he would receive eviction papers and then when he was advised that he had been sent a S21 notice he remembers that 10 weeks previous he received a kebab menu by registered post on that same day. In my view, he is on the back foot.

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      #3
      Did he order a kebab?

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        #4
        I like the LL's style.
        "I'm afraid I didn't do enough background checks apart from checking her identity on Facebook" - ANON

        What I say is based on my own experience and research - Please don't take as gospel without first checking the gospel yourself.

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          #5
          Originally posted by jghomer View Post
          My first thought is it strikes me as a bit odd a LL would go to the trouble of sending registered post and enclosing a kebab leaflet instead of a notice.
          I feel for him when that evening, being hungry, he decided to order his favourite kebab only to find a s.21 notice instead of the flyer.
          "WTF, where's that bl**dy flyer?... Oh cr*p!"

          Comment


            #6
            Could have got the idea from here maybe? http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...626#post201626
            I also post as Mars_Mug when not moderating

            Comment


              #7
              Well:-

              My friend isn't a nice chap and has been in arrears for several months.

              You admit, he denies S21 notice, is not a nice chap and is in arrears for several months.?

              What exactly are you aiming to achieve from your question to this forum.?

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                #8
                He just wants to know if a kebab menu is admissible in court as evidence.
                "I'm afraid I didn't do enough background checks apart from checking her identity on Facebook" - ANON

                What I say is based on my own experience and research - Please don't take as gospel without first checking the gospel yourself.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Why waste money on a Registered Letter, which can be refused, when with a First Class stamp and free Cert of Posting, Notice can be deemed served after 2 working days?

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                    #10
                    The friend has a reasonable defence (the process has not been correctly completed).
                    It will all depend on whether the judge believes the friend or the landlord more.

                    A judge may give him the benefit of the doubt - the outcome would simply be that the s21 notice needed to be served again, and the process duplicated.
                    Which is a safe call for the judge to make.

                    Either way, the friend is going to be evicted soon, going to court will only delay the inevitable
                    and the friend might end up with costs - the judge could easily split them between both parties in the interests.
                    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Just don't see it JP.

                      I think if a LL produces a signed proof of receipt, and also produces the S21 (which he has got to show the court anyway) then I think the default position is that the judge must assume the letter contained the notice. It's hard to imagine why it wouldn't. And even if the LL had used the 2 x proofs method as most do, what's to stop the T saying it was a pair of Dominos Menus he sent?

                      I think it's a difficult story to swallow, and one that if indeed it is believed, casts doubt on any and all legal notices served by post?

                      And if it is swallowed I think I am going to stop being a LL and get a job in a kebab shop because we're all doomed.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Who knows?

                        I think that the evidence based on proof of postage is really designed for cases when the notice is sent by a reputable and/or independent person.
                        But on the face of it when it comes from the landlord (or the tenant) it has very little value.

                        Therefore, I think that jpkeates has a good point, and that it would really depend on what the court believes on the day.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I just posted my CV to 3 local takeaways.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            You may have just evicted three local businesses.
                            When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                            Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by jjlandlord View Post
                              Who knows?

                              I think that the evidence based on proof of postage is really designed for cases when the notice is sent by a reputable and/or independent person.
                              But on the face of it when it comes from the landlord (or the tenant) it has very little value.

                              Therefore, I think that jpkeates has a good point, and that it would really depend on what the court believes on the day.
                              Exactly the point I have made more than once. The law on serving notices is not that satisfactory in this respect. I have always assumed it is predicated on the assumption that notices are served by professional gentlemen who would not stoop to low tricks (a) because they were gentlemen and (b) because of the huge risk in doing so. In these days of DIY law there is scope for low tricks. In this case though I am having difficulty seeing what a landlord would hope to gain by serving a flyer instead of an actual notice. However, the possibility that a flyer was tucked into the envelope by mistake cannot be ruled out.

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