Section 21 expired - can it still be used?

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    Section 21 expired - can it still be used?

    I have given a tenant a S21 to leave on 28th April 2014. As he had pushed himself to make extra payments we agreed he could stay if he continued making certain payments - we agreed this by text.

    But he is slacking again and to be quite honest I have had enough and would prefer him to leave.

    The rent is £725 pcm and he is owing just over £1300 at this time. The rent due date is 17th but he asked if he could pay at end of each month, which I agreed to.
    He is struggling to pay the rent - i have offered him payment plans which he doesnt want to take up.

    I am offering today another payment plan which I want to insist he takes up - payable by standing order, so that i know i will get regular payments. It will mean the arrears are paid off in a year's time. If he does not accept i want him to leave.

    Do i have to reissue a new S21 (as the date i gave him to leave was 28/4/14)? or can i still make use of the old expired S21 somehow?. He was on an AST but is now on a Periodic - If i do another S21 am i right in saying it needs to be for 17th July now?. I did give an S8 but have just today realised that i didnt give the explanation of the reasons for Grounds 8 10 and 11, so I will have to do a new S8 I suppose (he did say though that he would make a payment next week of £300 which I think means I cant cite ground 8 - is this right? on 17/2 he owed 1660, on 17/3 1585, 17/4 1510, today 1310 and if he pays £300 before 17/5 it will make him owing 1735 - but he said he will pay another 500 at end of month (which is the date I let him pay by)).

    Sorry if this is confusing but he's doing my head in - its been going on for a year and a half. Other than paying the rent on time he is a good tenant.

    I will be really grateful for any advice. Thanks.

    #2
    Originally posted by Thurrock1 View Post
    we agreed he could stay if he continued making certain payments
    This cancelled your previous S21.

    Now for the usual questions.

    What is the start date of the last tenancy agreement, dd/mm/yy?
    How long was the term of the agreement, xx months? Was an end specified, dd/mm/yy?
    Was a deposit paid? If yes, did you protect it and serve the prescribed information within 30 days? If the tenancy is now periodic, did you re-serve the PI?
    Does the tenancy agreement state that the rent is payable monthly?
    Does your tenancy agreement say that Section 8 can be used to evict?

    Comment


      #3
      Hi Mrs Mug
      Thanks for your reply - in answer to your questions
      What is the start date of the last tenancy agreement, 17/4/12?
      How long was the term of the agreement, xx months? Was an end specified, dd/mm/yy? 12 - it just run off and i went on to periodic
      Was a deposit paid? If yes, did you protect it and serve the prescribed information within 30 days? If the tenancy is now periodic, did you re-serve the PI? it was saved at dps and Prescribed information given, no i didnt re-serve the Prescribed information again (I didnt know i had too )
      Does the tenancy agreement state that the rent is payable monthly? Yes - i use Property Hawks TA
      Does your tenancy agreement say that Section 8 can be used to evict? yes

      Comment


        #4
        No, no need to reissue another Sec 21.

        Reissue the prescribed info, and submit your N5b form at a cost of £280.
        If he reneges on your agreement, then get the bailiffs in.
        Allow tenants to protect their own deposits. I want free money when they do it wrong

        Comment


          #5
          Your served s21a may be invalid as expiry date does not conform to SPT Tenancy periods and lack of PI re-issue within 30 days of SPT commencement.
          SO's do not guarantee payment, as payments can be cancelled by T.
          You can either
          1 provide SPT PI before serving new s21 (both to be received by 16 May & allow 2 working days for delivery by Royal Mail First Class) S21 expiry is 'after 16 July'
          2 serve s8 g 8,10,11 on 18 May if 2 months rent owing at that time. Just g10&11 can succeed if suff evidence provided, but any s8 outcome is uncertain.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by thesaint View Post
            No, no need to reissue another Sec 21.
            Mrs Mug is right, you cannot have a 'conditional' S.21 Notice, so making an agreement about rental payments after the Notice was served in that if the condition was met the S.21 Notice would be withdrawn automatically makes it void for which a tenant can anter a legitimate defence against it should the landlord still pursue it. I would re-serve the Notice.
            The advice I give should not be construed as a definitive answer, and is without prejudice or liability. You are advised to consult a specialist solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

            Comment


              #7
              Thank you for your replies

              Comment


                #8
                PaulF,

                Mrs Mug is not correct. Ergo, neither are you.
                If mariner is correct about the dates(I don't believe that enough info has been given)then a new Sec 21 needs to be served.

                You're welcome.
                Allow tenants to protect their own deposits. I want free money when they do it wrong

                Comment


                  #9
                  Thanks for all your replies. Just one thing i want to ask now ... I thought that the law had changed re Periodic Tenancies and the need to give 2 months notice from the date of the month when the Periodic or original AST began, ie in my case 17th. I thought that requirement was no longer needed and that we could give two months from any day of the month. Please could you clarify that for me.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Can this tenant defend a s21 claim using ESTOPPELL? "In this case, your tenant is supposed to pay you his rent under the terms of his contract. He is currently (if he is in arrears) in breach of that contract. So he can’t, by doing what he is supposed to be doing anyway (ie pay your rent), prevent you using section 21 to evict him. Not under estoppel anyway".

                    NB Obviously this S21 in unusable anyways because of the wrong dates on it.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Thurrock1,

                      The law hasn't been changed as such. Just a new (favourable to landlords) interpretation.

                      I have said from the start that anyone using the new ruling/interpretation as a shortcut to save themselves a week or two is foolish, and may well find themselves on the wrong end of a decision.

                      If you want a 99% chance of success(judges make mistakes), then start again.
                      A payment plan doesn't render a Sec 21 invalid.
                      Allow tenants to protect their own deposits. I want free money when they do it wrong

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by thesaint View Post
                        Mrs Mug is not correct. Ergo, neither are you.
                        If mariner is correct about the dates(I don't believe that enough info has been given)then a new Sec 21 needs to be served.

                        You're welcome.
                        They are right, you're agreeing with them.....

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Welcome to the forum.

                          I do not agree that making a payment plan as suggested by Mrs Mug, and "confirmed" by Paul F renders a sec 21 void.
                          Allow tenants to protect their own deposits. I want free money when they do it wrong

                          Comment

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