Help with section 8? Long winded story would appreciate any help.

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    Help with section 8? Long winded story would appreciate any help.

    Please excuse if this is posted in the wrong forum I'm just looking for some help and where to turn.
    My father had been living in this property since I assume the 14/2/1977 as that was the oldest rent book i could find (He has 3 of them ) sadly he passed away on the 18th of march 2013.
    I have been living with him since I was 5 in the same property (now i am at the ole age of 23). Two weeks after his death I informed the landlords agency (As the landlord never gave us his details all of it was through the agency who did a crappy job) and told them on the 30/3/2013 that i would like to continue my fathers residency at the home, the agency then told me that they will contact the landlord. 3 days later i received an e-mail saying that the landlord would like me to move out, I did my research and found out that my father was a "sitting tenant with a regulated tenancy" I refused to move as it was impossible for me to clean out 40-50 years of stuff work and look for a new place etc they served me a notice to quit on the 16/05/2013. On the letters it stated that the landlord will not accept any money and it will be used for charges etc so what I have been doing is putting the money in a bank account weekly (£220) and have not touched it since the notice was given.
    I received a somewhat nasty phone call from one of the agency people telling me that I have no right to be in the flat and that I have not paid rent (due to what it said on the letter) I then told him I have had the rent money put into an account ready to be paid when I'm 1000% sure it is for rent he seemed a bit shocked that the letter that was sent to me saying that rent will not be accepted. He then went on to tell me the house is too big for me asking why I wanted to stay at the property (it was pretty obvious why.. I had grown up in this flat :/). There is sadly no way I can prove this conversation as it was a phone one. I then received a letter with some sort of survay questions from the agency acting on behalf of the landlord asking questions like What is my relation to my father, how long have I been living at the property to show them bank statements/ utility bills wanting to see my birth certificate etc which i did not fill in as they wanted me to send them photocopies etc which i did not feel comfortable doing.

    Now roll on to present day, I've received a copy of a claim form for possession on the property and a particulars of claim for possession. In the particulars of claim for possession under about the tenancy it mentions this:
    3. (a) The premeises were let to the "my fathers name" under a(n) Protected or statutory tenancy which began on date unknown. "my fathers name" died on or around 18th of march 2013. To the best of the claimants knowlege no grant of probate or letters of administartion have been taken out. The tenancy therefore vested in the public trustee by operation of law.
    (b) The current rent were it payable would be 222.00 and is payable each week.
    (c) Any unpaid rent or charge for use and occupation should be calculated at 31.34 per day.
    4. The reason the claimant is asking for possession is:
    9a) because the defendant has not paid the rent due under the terms of the tenancy agreement (details are set out below)(details are shown on the attached rent statement)
    b) because the defendant has failed to comply with other terms of the tenancy details are set out below.

    9 a and b were all strike'd with a line in between the sentences

    (c) because: (including any (other) statutory grounds)
    At the date of death of "fathers name" the tenancy for the premises vested in the public trustee and that tenancy has been validly determined by notice to quit.
    The 2nd defendant has not acquired any tenancy for the premises by operation of succession, statute or other legal princinple. (written exactly even with the mistakes)
    The 2nd defendant was not a member of "fathers name" family residing with "my fathers name" at the time of death and for the period of 2 years immediately before his death and in such circumstance is not entitled to an assured tenancy by succession purusant to section 2 and schedule 1 rent act 1977

    Now where do I go with this? Ive been given a defense form and everything I'm just confused and slightly scared at which way i should go with this.

    Due to all of this i have been unable to request repairs on the property as the property is old and nearly no repairs or upgrades have been done to the home (baring boiler checks) my toilet is broken, the windows are shaking out of the walls when cars drive by and have air coming through the top and sides (I've had to block it up with news paper...... which is costing me a fortune as i have two big windows in my bedroom and its freezing come 7-8 pm so have to leave the heater on) the front door sometimes refuses to open properly due to the locks on them being old and worn, the windows in the sitting room are nailed shut the carpet has been here for at least 20 years (have dated photos of the carpet and the carpets haven't been changed since i first came to this house (at 5 years old) and the kitchen window is rotting out.

    I also feel that something fishy is going on with the rent as my father had a rent officer come in during his tenancy and his rent was put at £50 per week via fair rent, after calling up and confirming this with the VOA I'm not sure as to why the rent has been increased without their knowledge as from reading and talking to them the landlord has to go through the fair rent to increase the rent but nothing of the sort had happened if anyone could shed some light on this it would be extremely helpful.

    I'll be willing to answer any questions if ti may help thank you in advanced and sorry about the long post.

    #2
    Sorry to hear about Dad.

    Call Shelter on ++free++ helpline 0808 800 4444. They are open (check their website) 8-8 monday-friday & 9-5 weekends.

    Succession rights & rent increases for rent act tenancies is a specialist area tthe Landlord/solicitor may well not understand. Shelter will have someone who does.

    Best regards
    I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

    Comment


      #3
      You should be able to find the last fair rent registered for you property by search the VOA Register online. That is the legal rent that can be applied.

      If you can prove you were living with Dad continuously for 2 years before his death, and he had not already succeed to the T (on death of wife), you seem to have a good case for succession rights. Hopefully you are on the electoral roll for that address?
      Who was the Executor of father's Will or did he die intestate without leaving a Wiill?

      LL rejected rent from you for fear of granting a new Tenancy. Did he accept any rent from you after being informed of father's death?
      LL letter should also be included in your defence, along with electoral roll et al evidence.

      Comment


        #4
        mariner,

        im not 100% sure im on the electoral, he died without leaving a will i am his only child and my mother died when i was 6/7 and at that time we were all living in this home.

        LL did not accept any rent from me after.

        And the address is under Fair rent of 50 pounds a week accourding to the phone call via VOA it didnt show up on the list as it was before 2003.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by theartfullodger View Post
          Call Shelter on ++free++ helpline 0808 800 4444.
          Thank you I will call them up asap.

          Comment


            #6
            Succession rights

            Originally posted by nyzah View Post
            Thank you I will call them up asap.
            Sorry to hear of your problems

            Do not move out at All,unless a court orders you to do so !

            Keep paying the rent and can I ask what was the date of the rent increase from your Fathers old rent to new one ?

            I can't make this out from your 1st post,but

            How long where people living at father address for and what relationship is there with father,including yourself ?

            It sounds like to me Letting agent/landlord are trying to pull a fast one ....

            You need to consult a solicitor/local law centre on this asap

            and your local council tenancy relation officer "TRO" http://www.atro-online.com/members.html is there one near you

            Please keep us posted on LLZ
            Thunderbirds are go

            Comment


              #7
              Thank you for your help, I have kept all the rent money on an account which i am ready to give the landlord dating up to this date.
              It has been me and my fiance with my father, I have been living with him since i was 5. and my Fiance has been here living with us for 4 years.
              The rent increase was from a long time ago sadly, I remember me being around 17/18 when a small letter stating "the rent increased to 220 please pay by blah date" we stupidly paid it since we thought we'd lose our home.
              I have also called up homeless shelter which have given me great advice and have told me I should be in line for succession however I need to send some info over to them so they can help me out more.

              Anymore help on this matter would be a huge help and thank you guys fro your help so far.

              Comment


                #8
                Great to hear your news.

                Shelter do not just help the homeless: It is a Housing charity.

                Act on Shelter's advice and send them the info they have asked for.
                I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                Comment


                  #9
                  Yeah, I always thought they were just to help the homeless. I have already sent off all the information for them on the same day of calling them up, so fingers crossed.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Good general advice on Regulated/"Rent Act" tenancies here..

                    http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_ad...ated_tenancies

                    Specifically
                    Death of a regulated tenant

                    If a regulated tenant dies the tenancy can be passed on under specific circumstances. This is known as succession. The tenancy can be passed to:

                    a spouse or partner who lived in the property at the time of the tenant's death
                    another member of the tenant's family who lived in the property with the tenant for at least two years prior to the tenant's death.

                    If the tenancy passes to the spouse or partner and there has not been a previous succession, the tenancy remains a regulated tenancy. If it passes to another member of the tenant's family or is a second succession, it becomes an assured tenancy. The tenancy can only be passed on twice in very specific circumstances. The second successor must fulfil certain requirements.
                    Keep talking with Shelter: Do as 45002 says.

                    Keep posting with any further questions.

                    Any silliness from landlord make a note (date, time, what..) in case you later need to act on harassment.

                    Best wishes
                    I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                    Comment


                      #11
                      You need to get Legal advice Before any court case

                      Hello nyzah

                      You should ring up or Email Rent service now called VOA http://www.voa.gov.uk/corporate/Rent.../fairRent.html ASAP

                      And ask them for a copy of the last rent registration, they should be able to do this and think it cost £1.00 you could also ask them where Do you stand on the Rent, as far as I can tell the rent can't go up much anyway with succession rights from RT to AT.

                      Shelter are correct, your succession rights are from your Father "Regulated Tenant" to you "Assured Tenant"

                      If you do get a court date, It is very important you go and attend court case

                      You need to get Legal advice Before any court case from a Solicitor or someone local law centre, specializing in housing law to defend you in court please don't leave this to the last minute .

                      You don't have to answer this next question, but which part of the country are you from town or city Need to get you some good legal advice

                      Can I ask do you know who drew up that section 8 notice if that's what it is !

                      Keep us All posted on LLZ.
                      Thunderbirds are go

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I will ring VOA up again for a copy of that now.
                        I do have a court date and it is the 4th of next month.
                        I'm from east london. and I'm not sure who drew up the section 8. I've been called back by the shelter people after they checked into my situation a bit more and they said that the base that he is taking me to court under are not valid and that I should have been given succession automatically.

                        On the notice it says a certain name which I'm assuming its the landlord but it was sent out by a Solicitor acting on their behalf and also the letting agent. I mean I have asked for the landlords name and address but the letting agent has refused me the info.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          After calling up VOA they will be sending me out the last rent registration, which was £40 a week and that was registered on the 22nd of march 1993. So it was less than i had assumed it was (£50) They also told me that the rent can only be increased by them, They also gave me more information on my succession rights and about the increased rent and where i stand with the current rent.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I am also slightly confused, when I spoke to the adviser and he asked me on what grounds of possession was and on the letter it said "Expiry of notice to quit" He assumed that it was a section 21 and told me that the landlord could not use a section 21 on me and that it would be thrown out of court, I am not sure what section 21 is or fully what section 8 is, could anyone explain this to me? Sorry I'm not savvy about all of this.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              That's good news

                              Originally posted by nyzah View Post
                              After calling up VOA they will be sending me out the last rent registration, which was £40 a week and that was registered on the 22nd of march 1993. So it was less than i had assumed it was (£50) They also told me that the rent can only be increased by them, They also gave me more information on my succession rights and about the increased rent and where i stand with the current rent.
                              Court date 4th of next month, you need to keep on top of this.

                              That's good news, your be able to use last rent registration in court if there any doubt and show to Shelter, Solicitor/ local law centre.

                              East London, if you look here http://www.atro-online.com/members.html you see a list London Boroughs that have "TRO's" Tenancy relation officer are a department of the local councils can also advise private tenants and help protect your existing legal rights...

                              It will be a good idea to ring the one covering you or nearest Borough to you, there housing department and asking for Tenancy relation officer, they will definitely have a list of Solicitor/ local law centre and TRO's can intervene directly if there are problems with a LL, hope not.

                              There is one question I forgot to ask you, Is the current landlord the same LL when you Father 1st moved in ?

                              Originally posted by nyzah View Post
                              I am also slightly confused, when I spoke to the adviser and he asked me on what grounds of possession was and on the letter it said "Expiry of notice to quit" He assumed that it was a section 21 and told me that the landlord could not use a section 21 on me and that it would be thrown out of court, I am not sure what section 21 is or fully what section 8 is, could anyone explain this to me? Sorry I'm not savvy about all of this.
                              A Section 8 and section 21 notice are formal notices and would be invalid in this case....

                              Can you at all upload the notice served on you to the forum with All personal details blank out

                              When you post on LLZ and preview your post, there a bit below which is called Manage Attachments

                              -------------------------------------

                              Encase your wondering I have a regulated tenancy myself like your father and the place I'm in has been sold twice with me still living there as a RT...
                              Thunderbirds are go

                              Comment

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