Can landlord demand viewings whilst old T still resides?

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    Can landlord demand viewings whilst old T still resides?

    My mums friend is at university, she graduates in July, and she told landlord shes going to claim income support(I think) for her and her 3 children under 16.

    He apparantly was very abusive to her, and the next day told her hes selling house and gave her 2 months notice to move out.

    Appparantly hes also told her she HAS to show prospective buyers around at his request and have the kids out of the house etc, and he said she has to find buyers for him too!

    Also he said shes not allowed to have anything packed inside house when people visit, if she has boxes shes packing, they have to be outside the house,

    Isnt all this illegal.

    #2
    Quite right, your mum's friend does not have to co-operate with the landlord and is not obliged to let anybody in the property. If the landlord intends to use his own key she should immediately write to him stating under no cicumstances should he enter the property without permission. If she took him to court there is likely to be substantial damages awarded against him. She needs a specialist lawyer to do this though and might qualify for legal aid if it comes to it.
    The advice I give should not be construed as a definitive answer, and is without prejudice or liability. You are advised to consult a specialist solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

    Comment


      #3
      Unreasonable viewing times

      My landlord informed me that she has given the keys to an estate agents to find potentila tenants as we are moving out.

      She then went on to tell me that they dont have to inform when they are coming round for a viewing as it says in the contract that within two months of the end of the tenancy agreement I must allow the landlord or her representatives to enter the property and that she doesnt have to inform me or give me any notice.

      I have looked at the contract and it states that:

      'the landlord or any person authorised by the landlord or his agent may at reasonable times of the day on giving 24 hours notice (unless in the case of an emergency) enter the property for the purpose of viewing, inspecting its condition and state of repair'

      It then says:

      'within the last two months of the tenancy to permit the landlord or any person authorised by the landlord or agent at reasonable hours in daytime to enter and view the property with prospective tenants or purchasers'.

      Does she still have to at least tell me someone is coming to view the property, because there are times when people just turn up and open the door without any prior notice.

      I have just had a man round here at 8.30 pm wanting to show his client the property. Can I refuse? This is not at reasonable hours!

      She also has no clue who has keys to her property. As far as she's concerned she has only given one estate agent keys for viewings. But I have had at least 2 other estate agents over her saying they are affiliated with her chosen agent but have their own clients.

      Am I being paranoid here? I mean, if something went missing, no one would know who had been in the property because, all and sundry are coming round without the landlords knowledge.

      Help me. I am freaking out!

      Comment


        #4
        The law states that you always have to be given notice before the landlord or anyone can enter the property (at least 24 hours notice). Emergency situations are excluded from this.

        You have the right to "quiet enjoyment" and basically you have effective ownership of the property while you're there.

        You can refuse people and also the landlord can get in trouble for breaching your rights.

        I suggest talking to the local citizens advice for more info & also searching the web for the appropriate tenancy law PDF files (which are around).

        Comment


          #5
          Gawd muppet LLs are everywhere!

          Until you hand back the keys, it is your home and are entitled quiet enjoyment. You do not have to let anyone in without your express permission (unless LL enters in an emergency).

          It is good policy to allow reasonable viewings, but those contract terms are unenforceable. You don't have to allow them in at all, so only do so on your terms i.e. at times and amount of notice as is reasonable to you.

          Stand your ground.
          Now signature free.

          Comment


            #6
            Hi there

            I'm going through the same now-ish and have done in the past.

            Also in the past have accepted was what thrown at me - even EA turning up on a Saturday morning at 7.30am to show a client round when I was in bed and in my pyjamas.

            Not any more.

            As a tenant - I have had a lot of help from SHELTER. They have an online system on their website - and they get back to you within 3 days (in my experience within 24-hours) plus you can go back to them - and they will also talk to you in person as well if your case gets complicated.

            With what is written in your contract - same as mine on previous counts and also in today's situation - so all who've replied so far are correct:

            You have quiet enjoyment - means you do not by law have to show anyone if you do not wish. But as said before it is reasonable to do so if you have said you will be leaving and it is 2 months to go until that time. But they do have to give you 24-hours notice. Often EAs/Lettings Agent will push that envelope - and try you out - but this time round, I've pretty much stood my ground - but they still try it - and I have refused - but granted it the following time if not within 24 hours.

            Also, based on advice on this forum and other forums - specified the times I would accept viewings - in my case - evenings Mon-Fri 5-7pm and Saturday afternoons only. No Sunday viewings - again they tried to push - I said no.

            Until I got to this forum - previous properties - I just said yes to viewings when they were even 9pm in the evening having been told at 6:30pm!!! Didn't realise I had rights then, now do and they are rights that you have - so use them!!

            Also, I had previous situations where the prospective tenant/owner would turn-up unaccompanied - and I would be expected to show them around. I did it in the past - now I won't - I don't get paid for it - so I don't do it.

            Constantly I was having to pay via my pay-as-you-go phone to phone EAs back - now I don't - I send an e-mail saying I will not return calls - call between this and that time only for appointments for viewings - it's worked - well sort of - they've still pushed the envelope.

            Stand your ground.

            I found CAB okay - but I had to wait days for an appointment - and I think Shelter's expertise is fantastic.

            All their replies so far have indicated that I have someone with serious legal knowledge of tenants and their problems replying to my enquiries.

            But also, this site - is fantastic - because you have real landlords who reply to you - with their experience from their perspective - and that is really invaluable.

            They tell you how it is for them - and that has too been great in my experience.

            My biggest grip now is BTL landlords who are getting out of the market due to financial hardship and selling their properties after the tenant has only just moved in - not LLs here I would add IMHO, as those I've experienced have been LL only over the last 5 years - and have remortgaged on a few properties to support their life-styles - and got into trouble rather than understanding they are in a business. That's another story and a situation you are not in.

            Stand your ground - in the end it benefits the LL - many of them don't realise that Lettings agents etc are doing this to tenants - and those LL that do this - clearly are not a member of this forum and perhaps not professional LLs in the true sense of the word.

            Good luck!

            Hope this helps from a tenant persepctive.

            Comment


              #7
              Can L insist on property viewings- old T still resident?

              Hello all, hope I haven't broken etiquette by asking a question with my first post!

              I have a tenant coming up for 6 months on her 2nd shorthold tenancy contract, we'd like to sell the property so will be giving 2 months notice on 6 months, as permitted in the contract. The agent has just mentioned this to her and she's got a bit upset and said she will not allow access for viewings during her notice period. This is within her rights as the contract only allows for it in the final 2 months of it, rather than during an earlier notice period. Obviously I would rather shift the property now and have it complete asap after she vacates.

              My question is, I am thinking of offering an incentive such as rent reduction for the final two months in exchange for her playing ball and allowing access. Has anyone had a similar situation? Appreciate any advice on type/level of incentive or any other suggestions.

              Many thanks
              Simon

              Comment


                #8
                It's not unusual for this kind of situation to occur. Certainly it's worth trying some kind of financial incentive. How much you are prepared to offer depends on how desperate you are to sell the property.

                Peter

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by simon123 View Post
                  ...said she will not allow access for viewings during her notice period. This is within her rights as the contract only allows for it in the final 2 months of it, rather than during an earlier notice period.
                  It's essentially her property with her quiet enjoyment enshrined in law for the entire duration of her tenancy and she does not need to permit any access at any point if she so wishes, whatever it says in the agreement.

                  Hopefully forum members can suggest ways to motivate her to accept viewings, be it if they happen at certain times/days/notice periods that she stipulates or through some form of bribery, such as meeting her removal costs, reduced rent or something similar.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I'm not surprised she's upset, she's probably fed up of moving, she hasn't been there long. I was asked to leave when my landlord wanted to sell and it is a huge pain having to move at an inconvenient time and it costs in time off work, removals etc. etc.

                    The least you can do is offer to be flexible over her leaving date so that if she finds a good alternative property you will let her leave early without charging rent till the end of the contract. Otherwise if she misses that property she may not have anywhere else lined up and may stay on.

                    Basically it's a cheek to charge full rent and expect to be allowed viewings when it is you asking the tenant to leave through no fault of their own. If the tenant hands in their notice or has been a pain such that you want them to leave then fair enough you want viewings to get a replacement but that's not the case here. Sometimes I think landlords forget that although they own the property it is still the tenant's home while the tenant is paying the rent

                    I see this happening more as landlords sell up in larger numbers. Whatever happened to being in it for the long term?
                    ~~~~~

                    Comment


                      #11
                      thanks for the suggestions all

                      and for the record i agree that it's a pain for her and she is deserving of help of some kind, whether it's financial or just through flexibility. it's a renewed contract by the way, so it's 18 months she's been there rather than 6. also we aren't investors, it's my wife's former home - we got married in the summer and now want to consolidate and buy a family home, so it's not cynical profit taking!

                      thanks again
                      simon

                      Comment


                        #12
                        18 months isn't long, moving every 18 months to two years is a right pain and makes it hard to settle down. I'd hope you told the tenant of your intentions to sell and rough timescale before she agreed to move in but as she is now upset I guess you didn't?

                        The reasons for the sale don't much matter to a tenant, the work and costs to them for moving is just the same. It cost me 600 quid removals last time I moved and 140 quid in agents fees and a weeks extra rent, 200 quid, as there was an overlap in dates and postal redirection. So that's a bill of 1,000 pounds plus the time involved and time off work.

                        Did anyone see the Truth about Property last night. A tenant on there made the point about the uncertainty of being a tenant in this country and went to Germany to tell us about the system there where tenants are much better off.
                        ~~~~~

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Ruth ...
                          Sounds like you need to buy yourself a Prop and take on the full responsibility of it, if you want rights and securities that extend beyond the very clear and well laid out terms set out in an AST ...

                          S
                          A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
                          W.Churchill

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Rodent1 View Post
                            Ruth ...
                            Sounds like you need to buy yourself a Prop and take on the full responsibility of it, if you want rights and securities that extend beyond the very clear and well laid out terms set out in an AST ...

                            S
                            Interesting comment, it seems you are implying landlords aren't generally "in it for the long term" after all.

                            If a landlord has plans to sell I think he should disclose that before taking a tenant on. Advertising the property as a long term let and booting the tenant out soon after when the tenant isn't at fault is pretty low.

                            This has nothing to do with the fact that the first contract offered is typically six months only as that gives the landlord time to see if the tenant is any good without being overly committed, which is fine. The tenant can make the same check on the landlord.

                            I am surprised your advice is that I buy rather than that landlords should be truthful about their plans to sell when interviewing the tenant! Besides why would I want to buy now when many landlords are selling? Strikes me this is a silly time to be buying, are you selling

                            PS. I was an owner for ten years, I'm not in any hurry to buy back in just yet.
                            ~~~~~

                            Comment


                              #15
                              If your happy to offer a financial incentive then it should help - but I would keep the rent the same and instead agree a sum to be refunded once the tenant vacates, so you can be sure that you get her cooperation for the final two months. Its all too easy for a tenant to change their mind once they have pocketed your incentive.

                              I also dont think it would hurt if your agent diplomatically reminded your tenant that they will likely have to provide a reference for her when she leaves, and being obstructive may deter other landlords/agents from accepting her.

                              Comment

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