Your opinions please: Who should take time off work for the boiler repair man?

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  • Rupert Rigsby
    replied
    Thanks one and all for the responses, even the sarcastic ones having a 'pop'.

    It looks as though the consensus is that my tenant should make her own arrangements to babysit the engineer (BG won't allow them to work alone, apparently). So, I'll proceed on that basis and if she genuinely can't be there or arrange a relative/neighbour to be there or arrange a weekend visit, I'll go as a last resort.

    I appreciate the time you have all taken to reply!

    Leave a comment:


  • bureaucrazy
    replied
    Get rid of your BG policy. They are a rip off. A few years of subscriptions would buy you new boiler. A typical repair which shouldn't occur more than every few years would probably cost less than 1 years subscription. I had a BG policy for about 5 years but when my boiler broke down, they refused to repair or replace it saying it was obsolete and then referred me to some small print saying they can just take money for nothing. Get yourself a regular reliable local engineer who can be trusted and flexible.

    Things break down in old houses from time to time. Any reasonable person should expect this and be prepared to cooperate by letting in a repair person during normal working hours. It's T's business what hours they decide to work or the terms of their employment and they need to manage all aspects of their lifestyle. Having said that, I can see their frustration about losing a precious day off.

    In future, put it in the contract that the T may reasonably required to be present from time to time when repairs are needed and that you will try to arrange a time as mutually convenient as possible.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lawcruncher
    replied
    The assertion that a landlord has an obligation, if the tenant requires him to, to attend when repairs are carried out does run rather counter to the threads where it is asserted that a tenant has the right to exclude a landlord whatever the tenancy agreement says.

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  • boletus
    replied
    Originally posted by Mars Mug View Post
    If the tenant offers access in evening times and at weekends have they not met Lord Denning’s requirement or does “mutually convenient” really mean convenient for the engineer only? What is a “reasonable solution”, who decides what is reasonable? What does “that doesn’t mean losing a day’s pay” mean if not ‘not expected to take time off work’?
    Apologies, Lord Denning didn't specifically cover arranging mutually convenient times for access to gas engineers.

    I slightly altered what he probably would have said had he judged on the issue. Or felt like posting on LLZ from the afterlife.
    Hence the 'With apologies to Lord Denning' at the end.

    Sorry, should have made it more obvious, slapped wrist.

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  • Mars Mug
    replied
    Originally posted by mind the gap View Post
    I think there is a difference between some random handyman picked out of an internet site and a registered gas engineer, (which is what I thought we were talking about). It is surely not in the engineer's interests to be trustworthy. They earn a lot of money and their reputation for honesty matters. Perhaps they don't trust householders/tenants not to accuse them of things they haven't done!
    I work for a defence company that has very many highly paid engineers, things still go missing and two people have in the past been found guilty and given 10 and 11 year prison sentences. Being a registered gas engineer is not an assurance of moral integrity. While this specific thread may be about access for a gas engineer, there have been enough other threads of a similar nature about access in general for repairs that I think it’s OK to discuss access for other engineers/handymen.

    Leave a comment:


  • MisterB
    replied
    what if there is a problem with the electrics next week, the cooker the week after, any other appliance the week after? it would seem to be appropriate that YOU pay for the repair, even arrange it if necessary, but that doesn't mean you have to be there. don't BG work on Saturday mornings? if not, the solution might be to cancel your BG insurance because it doesn't meet your needs and find a local qualified tradesperson to do the job one evening or weekend. I would be reluctant to take a day off work just because the tenant doesn't want anyone in her house when she isn't there
    ps if you do lose a days pay, is there any way to offset that against tax if you decide to go down that route? if you used an agent they would bill you for the time, so there may be another creative way for you to reduce the cost to yourself?

    Leave a comment:


  • mind the gap
    replied
    Originally posted by Mars Mug View Post
    If items go missing during the visit this may not be recognised for some time, but even if spotted on the day what happens? The landlord is unlikely to pay up, and the police and insurance company will likely not be interested because there was no forced entry. Are all repair men / engineers trustworthy?
    I think there is a difference between some random handyman picked out of an internet site and a registered gas engineer, (which is what I thought we were talking about). It is surely not in the engineer's interests not to be trustworthy. They earn a lot of money and their reputation for honesty matters. Perhaps they don't trust householders/tenants not to accuse them of things they haven't done!

    If the tenant offers access in evening times and at weekends have they not met Lord Denning’s requirement or does “mutually convenient” really mean convenient for the engineer only? What is a “reasonable solution”, who decides what is reasonable? What does “that doesn’t mean losing a day’s pay” mean if not ‘not expected to take time off work’?
    If the T cannot or will not take time off work it is surely not beyond the ken of man for them to ask a neighbour who is/could be in, to let the engineer in. If they have never made an effort to get to know any of their neighbours and do reciprocal small tasks to help them out from time to time, then it's a bad do. This could be their chance to remedy the situation.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mars Mug
    replied
    If items go missing during the visit this may not be recognised for some time, but even if spotted on the day what happens? The landlord is unlikely to pay up, and the police and insurance company will likely not be interested because there was no forced entry. Are all repair men / engineers trustworthy?

    If the tenant offers access in evening times and at weekends have they not met Lord Denning’s requirement or does “mutually convenient” really mean convenient for the engineer only? What is a “reasonable solution”, who decides what is reasonable? What does “that doesn’t mean losing a day’s pay” mean if not ‘not expected to take time off work’?

    Leave a comment:


  • mind the gap
    replied
    Originally posted by mk1fan View Post
    Depends on the tenant and whether they are happy to to allow access without them being present.

    There's no such thing as a part-time landlord.
    I agree, but if Ts are being precious about a registered gas engineer being in the property when they are not there, then the price they should pay for this neurois is having to take time off work if need be. What on earth do they think the poor guy (or woman) is going to do?

    I do not however think there is a problem with most Ts being willing for a registered gas engineer to let himself in. The problem is surely whether the engineer is willing/allowed (by their employer) to be in the property alone.

    We have a contract with Worcester Bosch and their guys aren't allowed to work without another adult present. Fortunately our tenants have always been accommodating and one of them can generally be there for repairs. We get the GSC cert done (by a local firm) in the turn-round time between tenancies each year, but that'a mainly so we can keep track of it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Claymore
    replied
    I strongly believe a 'reasonable tenant' would make arrangements with work to take time off for the repair and make the time up or, perhaps work from home or if they could, they could even get a family member or friend, then if none of this was possible, as the Landlord, I would attend the property. IMO, the majority of tenants would prefer to be present anyway.

    I have a nephew who lives in a housing association property and when his boiler goes wrong - he has to take time off or give the key to a trusted family member/friend.

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  • mk1fan
    replied
    Depends on the tenant and whether they are happy to to allow access without them being present.

    There's no such thing as a part-time landlord.

    Leave a comment:


  • boletus
    replied
    Originally posted by theartfullodger View Post
    Errr.., IMHO, b*ll*cks..

    Any householder (I take it you mean a home-owner...) doesn;t need a gas safety certificate, doesn't need an annual inspection & many - perhaps most ** - reasonable householders don't bother....
    Errr.., the discussion is about repairs not gas safety certificates.

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  • theartfullodger
    replied
    Originally posted by boletus View Post
    ....... In addition, he must, of course, agree a mutually convenient time with the gas engineer to repair it. Obviously that doesn't mean losing a day's pay, it means working to find a reasonable solution as any reasonable householder would do. "*
    Errr.., IMHO, b*ll*cks..

    Any householder (I take it you mean a home-owner...) doesn;t need a gas safety certificate, doesn't need an annual inspection & many - perhaps most ** - reasonable householders don't bother....

    (** Anyone got any statistics for how many home-owners get GSCs?? We certainly don;t for our gas boiler, but I dutifully do for my tenants..)

    Leave a comment:


  • Lulu999
    replied
    Fortunately, all my tenants I've asked have been very accommodating on such matters. Flexibility and cooperation have been key in developing and maintaing the right sort of relationship with good tenants. Two of my properties are two hours away and my current tenants understand this and are very helpful with such matters. Doing little extras and things that are outside the legal requirement of landlords can go a long way when a situation such as this requires a quick response.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lawcruncher
    replied
    Originally posted by Ericthelobster View Post
    Doesn't being available to let in a service engineer on a routine appointment come under the Denning umbrella of 'tenant-like' behaviour?
    Possibly.

    The landlord's obligation is to arrange for the repair. Is it not up to the tenant, if she does not want the engineer to attend on his own, to make arrangements for him to get in and be supervised? That is what she would have to do if she was an owner-occupier. I cannot see there is any obligation on the landlord to attend. What if there was some repair needed that was going to take several days?

    Leave a comment:

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