Procedural -Accelerated Pocession Claim made before end of tenancy

[Radiodoc]

My LL has made a an accelareted poccession claim 11 days before the end of tenancy
Will the court accept that and act on it or will another application need to be made after the end of the 6 month AST

Thanks

[PaulF]

If you move out in the next 11 days then he will be wasting his money. If you stay put it won't have any effect as the court will not consider it for a hearing date until about 2 months I would wager, and the NSP S.21 or S.8 Notice date will have passed anyway, so the APP will still be valid.

[Snorkerz]

Was there an expiry date on the section 21 notice? If so, what was it?

[Radiodoc]

Hi Snokerz,
The expiry date on the typed note was the end of tenancy.It was not a section 21 form.I am moving out on +7 days after the date anyway.But I don't want to pay for the acc.claim and the solicitor fees .Any ideas on what to write on the tenant response form ?

[thesaint]

Hi Snokerz,
The expiry date on the typed note was the end of tenancy.It was not a section 21 form.I am moving out on +7 days after the date anyway.But I don't want to pay for the acc.claim and the solicitor fees .Any ideas on what to write on the tenant response form ?

Do you realise that you will owe rent for a further two months if you stay past the end of the fixed term expiry?

When you say it was a "typed note", and not a "section 21 form", what does that mean? As long as the note contains the relevant information, then that's fine. If it doesn't, then in your defence you state what information was missing.

[Radiodoc]

Do you realise that you will owe rent for a further two months if you stay past the end of the fixed term expiry?

When you say it was a "typed note", and not a "section 21 form", what does that mean? As long as the note contains the relevant information, then that's fine. If it doesn't, then in your defence you state what information was missing.

Hi Saint
Thanks.I understand about the s21
1.What about the accelerated pocession claim submitted before end of tenancy
2.Also I dont understand why I pay for 2 months if I hand over the property after 7 days beyond the date of tenancy

[Snorkerz]

1) If you remain in the property beyond the end of the fixed term then the LL has the right to apply to the court for possession - the court may well order you to pay the fees. You may be able to argue that had the LL waited until the expiry date you would have left on time - may work. I have had landlords with perfectly legitimate claims not had the £175 awarded to them. There is nothing in statute or the civil procedure rules to prevent a landlord applying to the court before the expiry day. You are guaranteed your tenancy up until the expiry of the fixed term so the court can not grant a possession date that is before then.

2) You have not been given a notice to quit. Therefore if you want to leave you have to give valid notice. Valid notice would be a big fat nothing if you left on the last day of the fixed term tenancy, but if you stay past that you have a new periodic tenancy and the law requires that you give at least a months notice AND that notice must end on the last day of a tenancy period.

I know it seems like you have been given a notice to quit but you haven't - it is a 'notice requiring possession' which is a different thing. Even with a NTQ the choice of leaving date isn't arbitrary.

[Radiodoc]

1) If you remain in the property beyond the end of the fixed term then the LL has the right to apply to the court for possession - the court may well order you to pay the fees. You may be able to argue that had the LL waited until the expiry date you would have left on time - may work. I have had landlords with perfectly legitimate claims not had the £175 awarded to them. There is nothing in statute or the civil procedure rules to prevent a landlord applying to the court before the expiry day. You are guaranteed your tenancy up until the expiry of the fixed term so the court can not grant a possession date that is before then.

2) You have not been given a notice to quit. Therefore if you want to leave you have to give valid notice. Valid notice would be a big fat nothing if you left on the last day of the fixed term tenancy, but if you stay past that you have a new periodic tenancy and the law requires that you give at least a months notice AND that notice must end on the last day of a tenancy period.

I know it seems like you have been given a notice to quit but you haven't - it is a 'notice requiring possession' which is a different thing. Even with a NTQ the choice of leaving date isn't arbitrary.

Thanks Snorkerz
Very helpful.About point 2 -
a.I have been given notice to quit not by the court by the LL -the section 21 equivalent ?
b.so if I have to give a months notice and have to pay for the one months rent then I might as well stay put for a month (or rather 23 days more) rather than hurrying into my own new house ? Am I right in assuming if the court simultaneously issues a poccession order in favour of the LL that one month period might be cut short?I have to plan removals you see who charge a non refundable deposit
Any thoughts on this?

Regards

[Snorkerz]

a) the section 21 does not (legally) tell you to quit. Your tenancy will end on the last day of fixed term, but if you stay in situ a new tenancy will arise (section 5, 1988 HA). The only thing that can tell you to quit is a court order. Anything else is voluntary surrender.

b) kind of. Let us assume your current fixed term ends on 20th September. You can not give notice to end the new tenancy which will arise on 21/9 until it begins - it is standard contract law they you can't terminate something that hasn't yet started. So if you give notice on 21/9, it will expire on 20/11 because 20/10 is less than a month away.

You are right that the court order can, indeed, end the tenancy on any date - most likely 14 days after the judge makes his order. Allowing for post and court admin you may not get to hear the possession date until literally days before it happens.

The above is just the way the law works. If you want to leave 7 days after the end of the fixed term then there is nothing to stop you ending your liability from that date as long as the landlord agrees. If he does, it would be a wise precaution to get it in writing.

[Sad S]

Your landlord cannot give you a notice to quit. He can tell you that he MAY apply to a court for a possession order.
We are assuming you are in England or Wales? Please confirm as law is different elsewhere.

Only a court can grant a possession order - that's what a S21 notice may lead to, but only if the wording is right, the deposit protected and PI issued, and the landlord makes an application to the court after the expiry f the notice.

You haven 't understood it yet. See post # 7 which puts it all clearly.

[Snorkerz]

and the landlord makes an application to the court after the expiry of the notice.

There is nothing in statute or the civil procedure rules to prevent a landlord applying to the court before the expiry day.

Sad S

I know it is convention that LL applies to the court after expiry (that has to be the case with S8) but I couldn't find that in black & white anywhere. Do you know where that requirement is?

[Radiodoc]

a) the section 21 does not (legally) tell you to quit. Your tenancy will end on the last day of fixed term, but if you stay in situ a new tenancy will arise (section 5, 1988 HA). The only thing that can tell you to quit is a court order. Anything else is voluntary surrender.

b) kind of. Let us assume your current fixed term ends on 20th September. You can not give notice to end the new tenancy which will arise on 21/9 until it begins - it is standard contract law they you can't terminate something that hasn't yet started. So if you give notice on 21/9, it will expire on 20/11 because 20/10 is less than a month away.

You are right that the court order can, indeed, end the tenancy on any date - most likely 14 days after the judge makes his order. Allowing for post and court admin you may not get to hear the possession date until literally days before it happens.

The above is just the way the law works. If you want to leave 7 days after the end of the fixed term then there is nothing to stop you ending your liability from that date as long as the landlord agrees. If he does, it would be a wise precaution to get it in writing.

Hi Snorkerz
Thats a lot of education for me.
If court ends tenancy then its prorata rent paid I suppose
Thanks again

[Snorkerz]

Hi Snorkerz
Thats a lot of education for me.
If court ends tenancy then its prorata rent paid I suppose
Thanks again

That's another kindof. . . .

There is a separate law that once rent is paid, it is non-refundable. Think of a bag of sweets in Tesco. If you open the bag and take 2 sweets out, you still owe for the full bag. If you have used 2 days of a tenancy period, you owe for all of it .

I don't want to encourage you to break the law or your contract but I would expect the 'possession date' to be 1 month after you return the reply to the court. Consider only part-paying any rent payable after you return the defence form.

[thesaint]

Please note that the OP has not confirmed he has been given a notice that fulfills Sec 21 of the 1988 Housing Act.