Re-possesion proceedure

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  • Re-possesion proceedure

    Fantastic, Interesting forum btw, Thankyou. I have read and re-read alot of threads here, and so, I submit my apology in advance for my confusions.

    I just want to check that I have things right and glean anyones thoughts on my issues.

    I inherited a property, jointly with my brother, from my family 2 years ago. My father signed the AST for a new tenant 9 months ago. It has taken a long time to hand things over. The tenant started on a 6mth AST (30-06-06), paying monthly, which has since lapsed into a periodic tenancy by over 3 mths. He has consistently paid his rent late and currently owes 3 months rent.


    I can "ask" him to leave the property with this letter and his permission of course;
    Dear Mr ~
    It has been stated on numerous occasions that you are consistently late with your rent and, are currently, 3 months in rent arrears. Please find a current financial statement attached. I have been more than generous in giving you time to pay your debts and open to all communications from you during our relationship of trust. I personally feel betrayed and can no longer afford to subsidise your rent and allow you to jeopardise the homes of the other people living in the building.

    Court action is currently being taken to evict you under section 8 and Section 21 of the 1988 Housing Act.

    It therefore gives me no great pleasure to ask you to vacate the premises and seek alternative accommodation, with your permission, no later than 14 days after the receipt of this letter which will entail a signed agreement that all debts between us are clear and void and that you waive your right to live there. If you do not agree to leave within this time, I will be forced to issue court proceedings against you to re-pay the entire debt, including court costs, which may also lead to a CCJ awarded against you.

    Yours faithfully,

    I should also send with this letter and financial statement, a signed and dated S21(4) dated for 29-05-07 & a signed and dated S8 on grounds 8, 10 and 11. before the end of this month to the tenant by registered mail. What happens if he doesn't sign for the letter?

    If the tenant agrees to leave I will have to draw up a waiver contract that states that we are in agreement and that all debts are cancelled and he waives his right to live there. All OK?

    If the tenant does not give his permission to leave (by mutual consent) I will have to go to the court and fill in a form, with my evidence, to apply for possesion under S8. If that is granted is my S21 still valid? If the S8 is not granted (doubtful since 3months in area rs?). I will have to go to the court and fill in another form, with my evidence, to apply for possesion under S21. Then possibly bailiffs for eviction. Hopefully that's close to the end of it.

    Also to stop this situation happening in the future, I thought I could dissuade the tenant from foul play by holding 3 months money in advance. Cash is king and may succeed where the law will not. Thoughts please!

    (If this is correct please feel free to (amend and) use this notice letter above for your own purposes, which I release under the terms of the GPL. for public use.) It is intended to represent a business transaction rather than a threat to the tenant.
    "Give me a place to stand and i will move the earth" - Archimedes.

  • #2
    Originally posted by knoba View Post
    Fantastic, Interesting forum btw, Thankyou. I have read and re-read alot of threads here, and so, I submit my apology in advance for my confusions.

    I just want to check that I have things right and glean anyones thoughts on my issues.

    I inherited a property, jointly with my brother, from my family 2 years ago. My father signed the AST for a new tenant 9 months ago. It has taken a long time to hand things over. The tenant started on a 6mth AST (30-06-06), paying monthly, which has since lapsed into a periodic tenancy by over 3 mths. He has consistently paid his rent late and currently owes 3 months rent.


    I can "ask" him to leave the property with this letter and his permission of course;
    Dear Mr ~
    It has been stated on numerous occasions that you are consistently late with your rent and, are currently, 3 months in rent arrears. Please find a current financial statement attached. I have been more than generous in giving you time to pay your debts and open to all communications from you during our relationship of trust. I personally feel betrayed and can no longer afford to subsidise your rent and allow you to jeopardise the homes of the other people living in the building. You might prefer to call the financial statement the RENT ACCOUNT STATEMENT.

    Court action is currently being taken to evict you under section 8 and Section 21 of the 1988 Housing Act. Court action can not be commenced until the notice has expired on either the section 8 or the section 21. The earliest way to start court proceeding is to serve the section 8, however, please note that should the tenant bring arrears to below 2mths prior to the court hearing then the judge does not have to grant possession (this is because ground 8 is mandatory but grounds 10 and 11 are only discretionary).

    It therefore gives me no great pleasure to ask you to vacate the premises and seek alternative accommodation, with your permission, no later than 14 days after the receipt of this letter which will entail a signed agreement that all debts between us are clear and void and that you waive your right to live there. If you do not agree to leave within this time, I will be forced to issue court proceedings against you to re-pay the entire debt, including court costs, which may also lead to a CCJ awarded against you. The section 8 is what asks your tenant to vacate within 14 days unless he clears his rent arrears. You can not start court proceedings until the notice has expired (ie two weeks from serving it). You really should serve the section 8 at the same time you send this letter. You might also want to serve the section 21 at the same time. This could prove useful because if your section 8 fails in court at least the two months notice on the section 21 will have also expired.


    Yours faithfully,
    I should also send with this letter and financial statement, a signed and dated S21(4) dated for 29-05-07 & a signed and dated S8 on grounds 8, 10 and 11. before the end of this month to the tenant by registered mail. What happens if he doesn't sign for the letter? If the tenant doesn't sign for the mail it is still deemed as being served and you will have proof of postage to show the judge. However, it is also worth posting a second copy by hand (with witness) or post a second copy (or even a third copy) by normal mail. That way the judge will be in no doubt that the tenant must have received at least one of letters! Both the section 8 and section 21 can be served NOW. No need to wait until the end of the month! Just be sure that you get the dates right on the notices or they may be invalidated!

    If the tenant agrees to leave I will have to draw up a waiver contract that states that we are in agreement and that all debts are cancelled and he waives his right to live there. All OK? No need for this really. Once he has removed his belongings and given you the keys he has relinquished possession. You might find that this agreement is actually more to the benefit of the tenant because you are signing away your right to chase the debt.

    If the tenant does not give his permission to leave (by mutual consent) I will have to go to the court and fill in a form, with my evidence, to apply for possesion under S8. If that is granted is my S21 still valid? If the S8 is not granted (doubtful since 3months in area rs?). I will have to go to the court and fill in another form, with my evidence, to apply for possesion under S21. Then possibly bailiffs for eviction. Hopefully that's close to the end of it. The forms you fill in to claim for possession are called N5 and N119. Both these forms are available to download from the HMCS website so there would be no need for a trip to the court. Don't forget that if the tenant reduces his arrears to below 2mths prior to the court hearing then you are not guaranteed possession. The section 21 would still be valid. By the time you get to court with your section 8 (takes two - three months to get a hearing date) then you will find that the section 21 will have also expired. This could prove useful in the event that the section 8 fails as you could inform the judge that you have an expired section 21 and he might be good enough to then grant possession on the grounds 10 and 11 to save you a trip back to court!

    Also to stop this situation happening in the future, I thought I could dissuade the tenant from foul play by holding 3 months money in advance. Cash is king and may succeed where the law will not. Thoughts please! Are you talking about 3mths as a deposit or three months rent in advance? I personally think that asking for 3 mths deposit could deter a lot of potentially good tenants because that would be a huge sum to find prior to starting a new tenancy (especially when rent has to be found in advance too!). If you are talking 3 mths rent in advance, in the event of default you would have to wait for an extra 3mths before your tenant is even in arrears! Therefore section 8 would take forever to be applicable.....

    (If this is correct please feel free to (amend and) use this notice letter above for your own purposes, which I release under the terms of the GPL. for public use.) It is intended to represent a business transaction rather than a threat to the tenant.

    Dear Knoba - I hope my comments in red prove useful to you.

    Kind Regards

    J

    Comment


    • #3
      Thankyou so much for your time and efforts there J. I have read a lot of your posts and I consider you to be pretty hot! Excellent advice. I will re-do the letter for any other folks, who want it, to copy it too.

      I believe I would rather just get the tenant out than suffer any more losses. It must already be financially hard on him too as I have been homeless for a few years myself previously due to poor finnances. That's just the way life goes sometimes...? This way we both get to move on to somewhere new. It is, however then, my responsibility to make sure it doesn't happen again.

      I inherited a property, jointly with my brother, from my family 2 years ago. My father signed the AST for a new tenant 9 months ago. It has taken a long time to hand things over. The tenant started on a 6mth AST (30-06-06), paying monthly, which has since lapsed into a periodic tenancy by over 3 mths. He has consistently paid his rent late and currently owes 3 months rent.

      I can "ask" him to leave the property with this letter and his permission of course;
      Dear Mr ~

      It has been stated on numerous occasions that you are consistently late with your rent and, are currently, 3 months in rent arrears. Please find a current rent account statement attached. I have been more than generous in giving you time to pay your debts and open to all communications from you during our relationship of trust. I personally feel betrayed and can no longer afford to subsidise your rent and allow you to jeopardise the homes of the other people living in the building.

      Actions have already commenced to re-gain possesion of the property through the County Court under sections 8 and Sections 21 of the 1988 Housing Act.

      It therefore gives me no great pleasure to ask you to vacate the premises and seek alternative accommodation, with your permission, no later than 14 days after the receipt of this letter which will entail a signed agreement that all debts between us are clear and void and that you waive your right to live there. If you do not agree to leave within this time, I will be forced to issue further court proceedings against you to re-pay the entire debt, including court costs, which may also lead to a CCJ awarded against you.

      Yours faithfully,

      This letter to be sent in triplicate; "Registered", "First Class" and "By Hand" with a witness, including the current rent account statement, together with a signed and dated S21(4) dated for 29-05-07 & a signed and dated S8 on grounds 8, 10 and 11. ASAP.

      If the tenant does not give his permission to leave (by mutual consent) I will download a N5 form from the HMCS website and fill it in , with my evidence, to apply for possesion under S8 on grounds 8, 10 and 11. And I will also download an N119 form from the HMCS website and fill that in too , with my evidence, to apply for possesion under S21(4).
      (If this is correct please feel free to (amend and) use this notice letter above for your own purposes, which I release under the terms of the GPL. for public use.) It is intended to represent a business transaction rather than a threat to the tenant.
      "Give me a place to stand and i will move the earth" - Archimedes.

      Comment


      • #4
        Knoba - just remember that I am not legally qualified and so can ony advise from my own personal experiences and the many hours research I have done on the issue of claiming possession.

        That said, I wish you well with your case.

        Kind Regards

        J

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks again J! Experience is a superb quality i never tire of.

          I have posted up a sample "Notice.sxw" letter and also a "Rent Account Statement.sxc" in Open Office format (zipped) to present to the reluctant tenant and hopefully not to the Courts.

          If someone has been through the court system, with this sort of evidence, could tell me if the Rent Account Statement is ok?


          *Please feel free to amend and use these documents for your own purposes, which I release under the terms of the GPL. for public use.
          *There are no active macros in these documents.
          *They have been checked for viri
          *Searchable tags: spreadsheet, document.
          Last edited by knoba; 19-03-2007, 00:45 AM. Reason: knoba: Updated documents
          "Give me a place to stand and i will move the earth" - Archimedes.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by knoba View Post
            Thanks again J! Experience is a superb quality i never tire of.

            I have posted up a sample "Notice.sxw" letter and also a "Rent Account Statement.sxc" in Open Office format (zipped) to present to the reluctant tenant and hopefully not to the Courts.

            If someone has been through the court system, with this sort of evidence, could tell me if the Rent Account Statement is ok?


            *Please feel free to amend and use these documents for your own purposes, which I release under the terms of the GPL. for public use.
            *There are no active macros in these documents.
            *They have been checked for viri
            *Searchable tags: spreadsheet, document.
            Knoba - I have sent you a pm.

            I was hoping to attach a copy of my rent statement for you here but unfortunatley the system is telling me it is an invalid file. Sorry.

            Basically my spreadsheet includes the following titles:

            Date
            Description (this could include Rent, Interest, Admin Fee etc)
            Amount Due
            Payment Received
            Balance Due (outstanding)
            Appendix
            Notes


            I put an Appendix number on all my communications to tenants. The Appendix column within the rent statement allows me to make a note of the particular appendix if there has been an admin fee charged for the production of a letter etc.

            The notes column can be anything you'd like to add as a reminder or addtional info but I also use it to explain the maths behind any interest payments that have been added to the account. (Eg. £40 due 4/11/06 = 67 days overdue @ 9% and the total of 67p would be shown in the amount due column).

            At the bottom of the statement I provide the total figure due on the date of the rent statement being produced. I also make a note of the percentage that interest is being calculated with.

            Hope info provided helps.

            J

            Comment


            • #7
              Many thanks to Joannepowell for much help with this.

              Dear Mr(s) ~

              Please find enclosed a section 8 notice. This is a legal document and should be read carefully. If you do not bring your rent account up to date by (insert the date of expiry as on the section 8) you will leave me no option other than to commence legal proceedings against you with no further notice.

              Should you no longer be in a position to afford the agreed rent on the property and would like to terminate your tenancy voluntarily rather than face a court hearing, please contact me to discuss this further. I am not an unreasonable person and would be quite happy to 'write off' the current debt on the proviso that you vacate the property by the date stated on the section 8 notice.

              Please be aware that this is a very reasonable offer as I am legally within my rights to claim for a money order against you in the event of this claim for possession ending up in court. In the event of court action I would also be seeking a claim for costs which will increase your debt considerably and ultimately may result in you having a CCJ registered against your name. Please note that a CCJ would impact upon your future credit-worthiness.

              I urge you to consider accepting this very generous offer but also advise you to seek legal assistance if you are at all unsure about what the enclosed Section 8 notice means and what your legal rights are.


              Yours faithfully,
              Joannepowell - Notes;
              "The above text I have suggested sounds less 'harassing' and a judge will see that you have also suggested that the tenant takes legal advice concerning the situation. You therefore can not then be held responsible if the tenant chooses to ignore your advice."

              On the RentAccountStatement spreadsheet;
              I put an Appendix number on all my communications to tenants. The Appendix column within the rent statement allows me to make a note of the particular appendix if there has been an admin fee charged for the production of a letter etc.

              The notes column can be anything you'd like to add as a reminder or additional info but I also use it to explain the maths behind any interest payments that have been added to the account. (E.g. £40 due 4/11/06 = 67 days overdue @ 9% and the total of 67p would be shown in the amount due column).

              At the bottom of the statement I provide the total figure due on the date of the rent statement being produced. I also make a note of the percentage that interest is being calculated with.

              *Please feel free to amend and use these documents for your own purposes, which I release under the terms of the GPL. for public use.
              *There are no active macros in these documents.
              *They have been checked for viri
              *Searchable tags: spreadsheet, document.


              Legal Disclaimer
              You may use any of these documents at your own risk. If you are in any doubt please seek qualified legal advice. All parties shall not be responsible for and disclaims all liability for any loss, liability, damage (whether direct, indirect or consequential), personal injury or expense of any nature whatsoever which may be suffered by you or any third party (including your company), as a result of or which may be attributable, directly or indirectly, to your access and use of these documents, or any information contained in these documents.


              Apols for the thread being so messy. Maybe an admin can tidy it up or find a new place for GPL'd documents?
              "Give me a place to stand and i will move the earth" - Archimedes.

              Comment


              • #8
                So to re-cap:

                Tenant is on 6 month AST. Started 30/06/06. Pays monthly. Rent is due on the last day of the month. Now (19/03/07) on Periodic Tenancy. He is behind on his rent by 3 months and has consistantly paid late. I have also decided not to release him from his obligations to pay for the outstanding rent.

                I am issuing to the tenant;
                a covering letter
                a Section 21-4a for a Periodic Tenancy
                a Section 8
                a Rent Account Statement

                I will give these, in triplicate, to him by; "1st class mail", "registered mail" and "by hand with a witness".

                Here is my covering letter to the tenant;

                Recipients Address

                Senders Addresss
                20th March, 2007

                Dear Mr #####

                Please find enclosed a section 21 notice. This is a legal document and should be read carefully.

                Please also find enclosed a section 8 notice. This is a legal document and should be read carefully. If you do not bring your rent account up to date by 5th April 2007, as on the section 8, you will leave me no option other than to commence legal proceedings against you with no further notice.

                Should you no longer be in a position to afford the agreed rent on the property and would like to terminate your tenancy voluntarily rather than face a court hearing, please contact me to discuss this further. I am not an unreasonable person.

                I am legally within my rights to claim for a money order against you in the event of this claim for possession ending up in court. In the event of court action I would also be seeking a claim for costs which will increase your debt considerably and ultimately may result in you having a CCJ registered against your name. Please note that a CCJ would impact upon your future credit-worthiness.

                Please also find enclosed a current rent account statement.

                I advise you to seek legal assistance if you are at all unsure about what the enclosed Section 8 notice and section 21 notice means and what your legal rights are.

                Yours faithfully,

                Mr # ####

                Here is the first part of my section 8 under grounds 8, 10 & 11;



                See next post.
                "Give me a place to stand and i will move the earth" - Archimedes.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Here is the second part of my section 8



                  See next post...
                  "Give me a place to stand and i will move the earth" - Archimedes.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Here is my section 21 (4)a



                    His rent (due) day starts on the last day of the month (30/06/06 in this case) and finishes the day before on the following month (30/07/06 july has 31 days). Since I have to give him 2 full months notice, the next current rent day is March 31st, so the next rent day in 2 months time is 31th may. I will put the expiry date on the Section 21 as 30th May 2007 and serve the notices to be "in his hand" before the 29th to be safe.

                    See next post...
                    "Give me a place to stand and i will move the earth" - Archimedes.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Here is the tenants Rent Account Statement;



                      If anyone can see any potential flaws here (not my personal ones ) i would appreciate any feedback.

                      I am posting here, mainly, to seek advice, like so many others, and would also like to make my particular process a little more transapent on this forum.

                      There is so much good advice here, although it seems fragmented, to me, and open to change. I do appreciate the other, more experienced, members time and efforts and hopefully this will eliviate some of the similar questions they seem to be constantly answering.

                      At the end of the day paid for professional advice is always advocated but any knowledge, experience and/or examples given here are greatly received.
                      "Give me a place to stand and i will move the earth" - Archimedes.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by knoba View Post
                        Here is the tenants Rent Account Statement;

                        [snip]

                        If anyone can see any potential flaws here (not my personal ones ) i would appreciate any feedback.
                        Well for a start - since when does February have 30 days?! This is the sort of careless error which I suspect could irritate a stroppy, tenant-friendly judge into throwing your case out.

                        What is the small print "Rent, Interest, Admin charge etc" all about? If those are included then itemise them, if not delete this.

                        Personally, I think a rent statement is clearer if it has two date columns - one is "Date due" and the other is "Date paid" (with the associated amounts in the next column)

                        Suggest your summary "Outstanding" at the bottom states instead "Arrears as of xx March 2007" and mentions the daily rate at which arrears is accumulating (and when you get to court, you want the actual sum due on that day at your fingertips).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thanks for the input Ericthelobster. They were silly mistakes to make indeed.

                          The best I can come up with from your observations is this:



                          at least it's up to date and accurate now. <thumbs up>
                          "Give me a place to stand and i will move the earth" - Archimedes.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by knoba View Post
                            at least it's up to date and accurate now.
                            You think?!!!?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by knoba View Post
                              Thanks for the input Ericthelobster. They were silly mistakes to make indeed.

                              The best I can come up with from your observations is this:



                              at least it's up to date and accurate now. <thumbs up>

                              KNOBA - You've already been advised about the number of days in Feb not being 30 so then you go put 31st Feb as your arrears date. I'll give you a clue - THERE ARE ONLY 28 DAYS IN FEBRUARY!


                              J

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