Selling property with tenant on periodic tenancy

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Selling property with tenant on periodic tenancy

    Hi , I have a tenant on a Periodic Tenancy, I want to sell the house and she is keen to leave but is waiting for a council house. Could you tell me do I have to give her:

    1) one or two months notice?

    2) serve a notice or will a termination letter do giving her the required notice?

    The deposit has been protected.

    thanks!

    #2
    You would have to serve a Section 21 notice, giving 2 months notice you are seeking possession, but this does not end the tenancy, and you may need to apply for a court possession order before the tenant would qualify for council housing.

    If you give some more info, members can tell you the exact dates to use etc:

    When did tenancy first start - exact date?
    When did fixed term end - exact date?
    When you say "deposit is protected" did you do this within 30 days of receiving it? Did you serve the full prescribed information and T&Cs from the deposit scheme and have you proof you provided this?

    Any discrepancies in serving or dating the notice, or anything missing from the full deposit protection requirements will render the ntoice invalid, Council will ignore it and court will not accept your possession application, so it is imperative it is 100% correct.

    Example templates for notices are here:

    http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/agreements.htm

    Youhave to log in again to access them. You require the one relevant to Periodic Tenancy.

    Comment


      #3
      Tenancy started 20/6/2012
      Tenancy ended 19/12/2012
      I agreed with the T that this will lapse into a periodic tenancy until the council had found a place for her to live and in the meantime I have put the house up for sale.

      I issued a section 21(1)(b) on the 05/11/2012 giving 2 months notice.

      I protected the deposit within 14 days of recieving it and got her sign a letter saying she alone provided the deposit. I gave her the prescribed information and T&C and she signed for it. I also have all the details of the deposit written into the lease.

      Do I have to serve another Section 21 on a periodic tenancy S 21(4)(a)?

      Comment


        #4
        There is nothing left to do, but wait for your Sec 21 to expire.
        Then you pay £175.00 to the county court and apply for possession.

        If you have done all you said in your 2nd post, it makes me wonder why you asked such basic questions in the first.
        Allow tenants to protect their own deposits. I want free money when they do it wrong

        Comment


          #5
          If your first section 21 was valid, by my estimation the expiry date date passed in January, so you can now apply for the court possession process to end the tenancy.

          Has the tenant taken the original notice to the council to show you are planning to evict? If so, what did they say?

          You cannot end the tenancy any other way, so if tenant does not want to move out willingly (ie make herself intentionally homeless) and thus reduce the chances of council re-housing them, then you have to evict - no other way, no other notice, no letters to tell them you are terminating - apply to court!

          Having checked your previous post, it seems I told you all this here:

          http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...513#post403513

          If you want to sell, and she won't leave, you have no option but to take the court route, as unless you find another LL willing to take her on as a tenant, you will not be able to exchange on a sale until you can confirm vacant possession.

          Comment


            #6
            I assume she took the section 21 to the council as they rang me up wanting to know the reason why my T wanted to move out. I didn't know if I needed to serve another s21 as the AST had lapsed into a periodic tenancy. Many thanks for your help...again!

            Comment


              #7
              Last question regarding the validity of your Sec21 notice. How did you express the expiry date on the notice and what was that date? If it says Expires on 19/01/2013 then your notice would be invalid. However, if it says expires after 19/01/2013 then you are fine. You could have started court action on the 20th of January to gain possession and more than likely would have had vacant possession already. (Assuming your paperwork was in order).
              I offer my advice freely, but I am not an expert, solicitor or judge. It is simply my experience of being a landlord and what I have learnt along the way. I make no warranty for my opinion.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by tinks View Post
                I assume she took the section 21 to the council as they rang me up wanting to know the reason why my T wanted to move out.
                You served a Sec 21, as far as they are concerned you want them to move out, not the other way around.
                Allow tenants to protect their own deposits. I want free money when they do it wrong

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Dinkum View Post
                  Last question regarding the validity of your Sec21 notice. How did you express the expiry date on the notice and what was that date? If it says Expires on 19/01/2013 then your notice would be invalid. However, if it says expires after 19/01/2013 then you are fine.
                  It's a notice under s.21(1)(b) so there is no requirement to use 'after'. However, indeed courts may focus on 'after' in all cases, even when they shouldn't.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by jjlandlord View Post
                    It's a notice under s.21(1)(b) so there is no requirement to use 'after'. However, indeed courts may focus on 'after' in all cases, even when they shouldn't.
                    On the last day of a tenancy, 'after' is essential for s21(1)(b) too because otherwise ll is seeking possession within the fixed term.

                    For any other expiry date, I agree with you jj.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by tinks View Post

                      Do I have to serve another Section 21 on a periodic tenancy S 21(4)(a)?
                      If the first notice was valid, then no, you don't need to serve another s.21. The first notice remains valid and actionable.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
                        On the last day of a tenancy, 'after' is essential for s21(1)(b) too because otherwise ll is seeking possession within the fixed term.
                        'after' is never essential in a s.21(1)(b), strictly speaking. What is essential is that it does not require possession during the fixed term.
                        So imho, if the notice "expires on" the last day of the tenancy it's fine, but if it "requires possession on" the last day of the tenancy it is not.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by jjlandlord View Post
                          'after' is never essential in a s.21(1)(b), strictly speaking. What is essential is that it does not require possession during the fixed term.
                          So imho, if the notice "expires on" the last day of the tenancy it's fine, but if it "requires possession on" the last day of the tenancy it is not.
                          And, of course, there is the old chestnut that s21(1)(b) does not even specify that an expiry date is required.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by tinks View Post
                            Tenancy started 20/6/2012
                            Tenancy ended 19/12/2012
                            ...
                            I issued a section 21(1)(b) on the 05/11/2012 giving 2 months notice.
                            Originally posted by Dinkum View Post
                            How did you express the expiry date on the notice and what was that date? If it says Expires on 19/01/2013 then your notice would be invalid. However, if it says expires after 19/01/2013 then you are fine.
                            A notice given during the fixed term under s.21(1)(b) does not have to comply with the requirements of a notice given during a periodic tenancy under s.21(4)(a). In other words, it does not have to expire "after" the end of a tenancy period (of an as yet non-existent periodic tenancy), it need only give a minimum of two months' notice, and expire after the fixed term expires.

                            If OP served notice on 5th November 2012, and it expired "after 5th January 2012" or "on 6th January 2012" or any later date, then the notice was valid.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Selling property with tenant on periodic tenancy

                              Do I have to do anything different if I want to sell my house with the tenant still in there? She is on a periodic tenancy. I assume I would have to inform her. She is forcing me to evict her to get rehoused by the council.

                              Comment

                              Latest Activity

                              Collapse

                              • Reply to Greetings, I Come in Peace
                                by Turbine Terry
                                I use Openrent for all my properties - advert and referencing for 2 tenants only £90 total - saves hundreds from using a normal letting agent and advert goes on Rightmove etc. I had 97 enquiries in 4 weeks for my last advert, but I am very picky so I took my time before choosing. You do the viewings...
                                20-01-2022, 13:18 PM
                              • Greetings, I Come in Peace
                                by AVJ113
                                Hello all, I am a prospective landlord. I will be arranging my first mortgage in principle today as a start to my evil buy-to-let empire. As a total newb, what would be the one piece of advice you would give after your years of experience as a landlord?
                                20-01-2022, 07:24 AM
                              • Reply to Tenancy inspection - more than one inspector?
                                by templar018080
                                Indeed, the contact makes a provision to allow inspections, however, does not specify that the landlord may sue for financial compensation in the event that I refuse one. Would a landlord be brave enough to even insert a clause for monetary compensation or even attempt to sue given the Tenant Fee Act...
                                20-01-2022, 13:03 PM
                              • Tenancy inspection - more than one inspector?
                                by templar018080
                                Good evening,

                                I'm a tenant with an amicable relationship with my agent and landlord.

                                I've been notified that the landlord and agent would like to inspect the premises at the same time together. (Just a routine inspection.) My question - is there currently anything in the...
                                17-01-2022, 18:13 PM
                              • Reply to Previous tenant paid last gas bill based on wrong estimated reading by gas company
                                by DPT57
                                I think that knowing I was responsible for the energy used from the date I moved in I would not just have accepted that no-one knows where the mater cupboard key is. I would have got it open somehow. The ones in my flats can be opened with a flathead screwdriver....
                                20-01-2022, 12:41 PM
                              • Previous tenant paid last gas bill based on wrong estimated reading by gas company
                                by Farrella
                                The previous tenant left during lockdown and closed his gas account based on an estimated reading that was too low. I did not realise this until 6 months afterwards as I never took a reading when I moved in, assuming everything was correct (oops). Then the gas company took a reading 6 months later...
                                19-01-2022, 16:25 PM
                              • Reply to Ending of a tenancy
                                by DPT57
                                As Artful says, the tenants notice is invalid as its served during the fixed term, (unless you have a contractual periodic tenancy), so you can't legally rely on them moving out and would have no recourse if the changed their minds and stayed on.

                                New tenants would likely sue you for their...
                                20-01-2022, 12:36 PM
                              • Ending of a tenancy
                                by leasee123
                                Hello,

                                I am a landlord with a tenancy fixed term ending in March. My tenants emailed to say they will be leaving, giving two month notice.

                                I will be marketing the property to find new tenants. How do I know that am I protected from the event of the tenants staying beyond...
                                19-01-2022, 12:42 PM
                              • Reply to Tenant in situ
                                by Hudson01
                                I do fully understand that it is not in yet, but....... what is the EPC ? If a D or E what would it take to bring it up to a C ? Planning ahead and all that.
                                20-01-2022, 12:29 PM
                              • Tenant in situ
                                by Bridge2020
                                I’m looking at buying another property to rent out. The one I’m looking at has a tenant in situ. I have seen a copy of the AST and payments to the agents.
                                Anyone have any experience of this please ?...
                                20-01-2022, 08:29 AM
                              Working...
                              X