Broken glass door-landlord trying to make us pay

[clarin]

Hi All,

This is my first post so sorry if it's not the usual standard!!

We have a patio out to out balcony which had a double door- one half static and one half that slides back. The door is double glazed. We noted that a crack appeared in the static door on the 13th of March and notified the letting agent on the 14th. The crack appeared on the inside of one of the pane of glass- i.e. you can run your hand down both sides of the door without feeling the crack or fear of getting splinters in your hand. We feel it was due to the really cold winter when we had the heat up high so there were two very different temperatures against different sides of the glass.
The letting agent did not come out to see the flat until 22nd of March stating that he needed to get photos/inspect for the manufacturers, which was fine.
We had to push to follow up with him multiple times.
Eventually today the director of the letting agency/owner of the investment property came to see it- without giving the 24 hour notice agreed by tenancy. He states that 'There are no mechanicals near the shatter point that might have caused thisand there is no doubt in my mind that the breakage has been caused by an impact (Strike or blow)to the internal pane of glass within the property, ie someone has accidentally hit, kicked or thrown something against the glass that has caused it to break'.

They are now requiring full payment for the door.

My questions would be:
- on a double glazed door what is the liklihood of something hitting it and shattering the inside, but not the outside pane of glass (bit of a technical question!)
- do we have any rights
- what would people recommend us do

Thanks in advance to any help or advice that can be provided on this or recommendation to be made. A glass of wine is called for to help with the stress levels!

[thesaint]

Eventually today the director of the letting agency/owner of the investment property came to see it- without giving the 24 hour notice agreed by tenancy.

So you wasn't expecting someone to come and see it???


Based on what you've said, I would be inclined to agree with him.

[Interlaken]

One pane of glass can crack in a DG unit and you will never know why. If there has been no impact it could could movement in the surround wall/brickwork. Take a careful look and see if there are any cracks in the mortar/bricks or render outside.

How old is the PD? Sometimes if you look at the silver strip in the cavity it says the maker and year of manufacture. Wear and tear depending on age will have to be taken into account. Make the landlord/agent research the year of installation (maybe when place was built)?

No way should you be charged for a replacement complete unit or complete set of new doors. Demand the agent gets quotes to replace the damaged pane only. There are many small local glazers that do this sort of work so take a look on www.checkatrade for your area or yell.com to get a price and argue that against what the agent says.

[Berlingogirl]

If the unit was old, as Interlaken says look on the silver strip, I (as a LL) would replace the unit. Probably cost about £250.

I might put your rent up next year though

[tom1984]

I worked in Household claims for years as a claims handler and a team leader.

I think I probably dealt with hundreds of claims for damaged glass in windows/doors etc.

What it sounds like is: thermal expansion. Basically what you said - it was cold outside, very warm inside, the glass expands... and cracks.

The LA is not a glazer I assume? Therefore he is not qualified to comment on the cause of the damage. I suggest you ask the LL to send out a glazier (or organise one yourself) to come and quote and provide written confirmation of the cause of the damage. A professional glazier will be the best placed person to confirm what has happened.

Best of luck.

[clarin]

So you wasn't expecting someone to come and see it???


Based on what you've said, I would be inclined to agree with him.

No what I was trying to put across is that we put a lot of pressure to him to come out and see it multiple times but he never attended- we wanted them to see it and have movement on resolving it. Then when he did arrive he did not give us the required 24 hours notice- a bit cheeky in this instance.

[PaulF]

The LA is not a glazier I assume? Therefore he is not qualified to comment on the cause of the damage.

This is a really good point well made. You need a qualified glazier if there is such a thing and not a letting agent to assess this.

[the-smiths]

I'm a landlord and also have over 20 years as technical manager/designer in windows/doors.

The glass will not have failed due to thermal expansion etc it will have have failed due to external influence - how ever this is applied.

But what I would have said is that the glass should have been toughened and would have crazed completely - as in the side window of a car door - or from a laminated glass which may show a crack - but this is more expensive and so rarer.

Cost to repair is around £50/m2 for the glass and around £50/£100 to do it - depending where you are.

[MisterB]

cost to replace the cracked unit with a new unit should be around £100 inc fitting - double glazed units are not fitted tightly into the frame there is always a gap (to allow for fitting but also would allow expansion) and plastic spacer blocks to hold the unit square/level when being fitted, then secured by the beading. double glazing actually allows both panes of the unit to expand/contract (thermal expansion co-efficient of glass is ??????) differently purely by its construction method.

I am with the smiths on this, it was broken due to an external force, either intentional of not!