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  • Pcol


    Served S21 which expires mid-February.

    I contacted the tenants to ask if they have managed to find another property yet and they are now requesting to stay. I've said 'no'. I've also asked to do a maintenance inspection this week (which has been agreed).

    The conversation ended with the tenant telling me - that 'we can talk about leaving in another 6 months time' this is after I've said no. The couple are Polish and sometimes there is a misunderstanding with communication.

    Should I send them a letter stating that, "following our conversation on [date], my decision has not changed and that I still seek to gain possess of the property after [date]?"

    If so, should I point out that if I have to make an application to the court, I will seek the costs from them?

    This is the bit I don't like about being a landlord - I hate the thought of making someone go when they don't want to - but the wife has been incredibly problematic and the property is far too small for them. I also suspect they could be sharing the property with another couple.

  • #2
    Maybe wait for Westminster to come on line to answer this, but my feeling is that whatever you send now other than official documents will be used as 'proof' of harassment.


    • #3
      OK, I shall do nothing for the moment.


      • #4
        As a frequent flyer on this forum, Claymore, you realise your s21, on expiry, does not compel Ts to vacate, only a Court repo Order, after enforcement, if nec. This could take 3-4 months after expiry. Of course, they could leave voluntarily on/before expiry date without serving a valid NTQ. In which case your only legal option is for s21 possession order.
        I appreciate your concern over poss breach of T, but without substantiated evidence, that is all that it is.
        You have not mentioned current tenancy status ie date T commenced, fixed term duration,frequency of rent payments due, date & type, validity s21 served.
        My advice, leave current valid? s21 in play, but do not execute yet, nor offer T extension.
        Use your agreed inspection to look for evidence of sub Ts (T is entitled to have rent non-contributary family members staying for a reasonable time.
        Ask neighbours about prolonged occupants, other than Ts.
        If T is reasonably up to date with rent due and not a mithering pain in the a**, why would you want to evict, creating a poss void of 1+ months?


        • #5
          The s.21 notice indicates that you are seeking possession, ie. that you intend to start court proceedings after expiry.
          Just wait until notice expires then start court proceedings if they don't intend to leave.


          • #6
            I applied to the court under S.21 on 5 December 2012 and received a Possession Order effective 22 January 2013 (tomorrow), so it might not take too long.
            The advice I give should not be construed as a definitive answer, and is without prejudice or liability. You are advised to consult a specialist solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.


            • #7
              Originally posted by Claymore View Post

              Should I send them a letter stating that, "following our conversation on [date], my decision has not changed and that I still seek to gain possess of the property after [date]?"

              If so, should I point out that if I have to make an application to the court, I will seek the costs from them?
              Yes, you should do exactly that. Maybe put the number of the local authorities housing department in it as well as the local C.A.B if you have one.
              Of course, you should keep a copy of the letter.
              Allow tenants to protect their own deposits. I want free money when they do it wrong


              • #8
                I am fully familiar with S21 and what it means etc. It has all been served correctly - I had Snorkerz company serve it for me.

                I haven't taken the decision to seek possession lightly and it has nothing to do with the possibility of them having another couple living there.

                I believe the wife is extremely unhappy - she is at home all day with the baby - they have far too much furniture for the place - I'm even storing some of their furniture for them and they also asked me to store one of their arm chairs but I said no. They are not heating the place and the wife has become an absolute pest with telephone calls re this, that and the other which are totally irrelevant to my responsibilities - ie, the plug in the bathroom is leaking. The light bulb in the bathroom is not working. A few months ago, I went down and had a chat with them about all the call outs - I listed 12 that I could remember and only 2 were valid. I explained this could not go on and that it was unfair to keep calling me out for things that they should be dealing with themselves. I said that I was thinking of not renewing their tenancy agreement. The husband called me and said don't worry, no more unnecessary telephone calls will happen. The final straw came at the end of November - I was in hospital having a major operation and she rang my other half (who is as she is fully aware, her joint landlord) with a problem - he told her he would come down the very next day. I came round from surgery to a text message on my phone saying, Mr Claymore has told me you are in hospital having an operation - who do I speak to if I have a problem? I could not believe this!

                Basically, the husband really wants to stay as it is an affordable property near to his work - he has rung me and told me to 'ignore' his wife and only to deal with him.

                I did ring the NLA and took advice and they said 'get them out, issue a S21 now'

                When I do the inspection I will mention some nice spacious properties a couple of towns away which are much cheaper than mine. I won't put anything in writing but I will reiterate that 'after' date, I will seek possession through the courts.


                • #9
                  I cannot see any harm in clarifying your position at all... Maybe I'm missing something that others have seen. It's not harassment, and you could perfectly justify it with the language barrier etc.
                  [I]The opinions I give are simply my opinions and interpretations of what I have learnt, in numerous years as a property professional, I would not rely upon them without consulting with a paid advisor and providing them with all the relevant facts[I]


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Claymore View Post
                    Served S21 which expires mid-February.

                    I contacted the tenants to ask if they have managed to find another property yet and they are now requesting to stay. I've said 'no'.
                    As you say you understand the effect of a s.21 notice is merely to entitle you to apply for possession, you presumably know that you don't have the authority to agree or refuse to let them stay. You can, obviously, choose whether or not to apply for a possession order.

                    Should I send them a letter stating that, "following our conversation on [date], my decision has not changed and that I still seek to gain possess of the property after [date]?"
                    I don't see the point. You either will or won't apply for possession, and if you go ahead, the T will know about it soon enough when he gets a copy of the claim.

                    You should also bear in mind the general rule about never saying more than you have to. It's never advisable, for example, to send a covering letter with a s.21 notice; same applies to correspondence regarding a s.21 notice already served.


                    • #11
                      Whilst I undestand Westminsters reticence with regard to 'extra info' I can also see Claymores PoV - a gentle reminder to encourage the tenants to leave on expiry without the inconvenience of the full possession claim / expense that she may well be unable to recover from the tenant.

                      Maybe we should have an optional extra of s21 notices in Polish or other E European Languages?


                      • #12
                        Thanks Westminster and Snorkerz.

                        Basically I feel I need to re-iterate that I will be seeking possession after 'the date' because I want to make sure there is no confusion. I had been firm all the way through the conversation with the husband, saying no, to allowing them to stay - but his final words to me were, OK, we will talk about if you want us to go in another 6 months time. I did say no and just got off the phone as we were going round in circles.

                        I really don't want to go to court - I don't want to incur additional costs for these tenants, obviously, if they don't give me a date that they are confirmed to move into a new property, then I have no choice.

                        I will hand deliver a letter when I do my inspection on Friday, politely pointing out that I will be seeking possession for my property and that I have not and will not change my mind.


                        • #13
                          What should I do?


                          I served S21 on tenants, expiry 15.2.13.

                          Tenants said they would move out on 28.2.13 and they put this in writing. They are now saying they haven't got anywhere to go and can they stay longer as they believe they have a property to go to mid-march. They can't even get a viewing on the property for another couple of weeks and their is no guarantee the landlord will have them as tenants or that they will definitely like it etc.

                          I do have other tenants waiting to go in and I have said I won't consider extending their departure unless they can show me they have got a property to go to - i,e, tenancy deposit receipt, confirmation of their move date.

                          Should I just go ahead and force the issue with an application for accelerated possession through the courts?


                          • #14
                            Yes. You can always halt proceedings if they subsequently move. Just make sure they surrender the tenancy to you correctly - search surrender of tenancy on this forum
                            My advice is not based on formal legal training but experience gained in 20+ years in the letting industry.


                            • #15
                              They have sent me a letter stating they will go on 28th and both signed it, so to me that is their notice to me.

                              I was thinking of giving them a deadline (about another 4 days), and then make an application. If they can definitely confirm they have a place to go, I'm sure my intended tenants would be OK to delay their move in date as they are living with parents.

                              At the end of the day, I don't like going to court as it will come out of their deposit, but this could drag on if I don't put my foot down.


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