Broken fridge - Landlord or tenant responsible for removing?

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  • jjlandlord
    replied
    I've read that before regarding an 'implied term' regarding repairs.
    However I was never provided sources to back that claim.

    As mentioned above my understanding is that at there is no obligation to repair unless expressly stated in contract, but there is an obligation to replace if beyond repair.

    Leave a comment:


  • Snorkerz
    replied
    ML, does that not expose you to problems with The Electrical Equipment (Safety) Regulations 1994? The legislation covers 'supply', not 'sale', so giving away would still be covered.

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  • midlandslandlord
    replied
    This is Phlash last month:

    There is no statutory requirement but there is an implied contract term if the fridge freezer is in the inventory and if it is in the AST then there is an express term of contract.

    Why you would want to argue about this with a tenant is beyond me. Good luck to any landlord who wishes to take this kind of short narrow view.

    'In my view', if it's broken from wear and tear and it was provided by the landlord then the landlord should replace without quarrel. If one of my landlords refused, I'd ask the landlord to leave my management - Whether supported by statutory requirements or not, I will not work with someone who can't come to that kind of simple conclusion.

    If the tenant took the property on the proviso that if the fridge broke down then it won't be being replaced, then game on.

    I believe some things shouldn't need to be written in statute, they should just be what a reasonable person may conclude. That's how we manage our property, and I'm sure many may disagree, but we get great results.
    http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...886#post404886

    Personally, if I don't want to be responsible for replacing it and there happens to be one I make giving it to the T part of the covering letter with the contract.

    ML

    Leave a comment:


  • Snorkerz
    replied
    Fridges have to be 'safely' disposed of. If tenant were to dump it in a near-by back alley, I wonder if the owner of the fridge may suffer consequences if he hadn't ensured it was safely disposed of?

    IMHO replacement (including the removal element) is not covered by tenancy law but is instead covered by contract law. Therefore, if the deal was for a house with a working fridge then failing to supply the fridge on an ongoing basis is a breach of contract.

    Can't wait for thesaint to follow Westminsters lead & become a Magistrate

    Leave a comment:


  • jjlandlord
    replied
    Originally posted by thesaint View Post
    I shall leave the discussion, as it is going nowhere at the moment.
    Please feel free to return with actual elements to back up your opinion...

    Leave a comment:


  • thesaint
    replied
    Originally posted by jjlandlord View Post
    So your previous statement was nothing more than your personal opinion.
    Incorrect.

    Originally posted by jjlandlord View Post
    In your scenario, the tenant would be equally able to charge the landlord for storing this useless fridge unless someone shows me the legislation that says that he cannot.
    If the contract allowed it, then yes you are correct.

    Originally posted by jjlandlord View Post

    Moreover, while landlord is not obligated to repair the fridge, from previous discussions (with Jeffrey) on the matter I am not sure that he is not obligated to replace it:
    My understanding was that landlord has provided a fridge as part of the contract, and must replace it if not repairable. (I cannot quote legal reasons, though)
    I shall leave the discussion, as it is going nowhere at the moment.

    Leave a comment:


  • jjlandlord
    replied
    Originally posted by thesaint View Post
    The tenant could keep the fridge in the property if they wished, but unless someone shows me the legislation that says the landlord is responsible for removal of items he isn't even responsible to replace, I will continue to say he isn't.
    So your previous statement was nothing more than your personal opinion.

    In your scenario, the tenant would be equally able to charge the landlord for storing this useless fridge unless someone shows me the legislation that says that he cannot.

    Moreover, while landlord is not obligated to repair the fridge, from previous discussions (with Jeffrey) on the matter I am not sure that he is not obligated to replace it:
    My understanding was that landlord has provided a fridge as part of the contract, and must replace it if not repairable. (I cannot quote legal reasons, though)

    Leave a comment:


  • mind the gap
    replied
    Originally posted by thesaint View Post
    The tenant could keep the fridge in the property if they wished, but unless someone shows me the legislation that says the landlord is responsible for removal of items he isn't even responsible to replace, I will continue to say he isn't.
    With respect, that is a ridiculous position to adopt and it flies in the face of good LL/T relations as well as common sense. I appreciate that as a letting agent, you would not wish to cause your clients (landlords) additional expense, but we are talking about £10 here (at most) to ensure the T's home is not cluttered up with a large, broken item which has never belonged to him. In most rental properties there is no room for such an extra items and it may even compromise safety/exits, etc. The £10 would be tax-off settable; it;'s simply part of the cost of replacing the fridge - which I think you'll find is the LL's responsibility if he provided it in the first place. (Especially when most electrical retailers will take it away and recycle it free when delivering the new appliance!)

    This is surely one of those instances where the LL/agent should not just pull in their horns and say 'Oh well, there's no law which says I have to remove a broken fridge from a rental property, so it's not my problem'.

    Or would you, as an agent, simply instruct your LL client to do nothing and let the T sort out and pay for the replacement and removal of old fridge himself?

    What do other letting agents think?

    Leave a comment:


  • thesaint
    replied
    Originally posted by Claymore View Post
    But a light bulb is a consumable - a fridge isn't. Surely it's down to the landlord to remove it?
    There is nothing about the landlord being responsible for "consumables" that I have seen in housing law to my knowledge. If the Landlord and tenant act 1985 was just related to consumables, it would be simple to understand, and about two lines long.

    The tenant could keep the fridge in the property if they wished, but unless someone shows me the legislation that says the landlord is responsible for removal of items he isn't even responsible to replace, I will continue to say he isn't.

    Leave a comment:


  • mind the gap
    replied
    Originally posted by Claymore View Post
    But a light bulb is a consumable - a fridge isn't. Surely it's down to the landlord to remove it?

    Mind you, if the landlord agree's with the disposal - he could just suggest it is put outside for the scrap man and arrange for a new one to be delivered.
    Actually, I think the suppliers of the new fridge will take the old one away free/for a small fee (it may even be a legal requirement to offer to, I can't remember).

    Leave a comment:


  • Claymore
    replied
    But a light bulb is a consumable - a fridge isn't. Surely it's down to the landlord to remove it?

    Mind you, if the landlord agree's with the disposal - he could just suggest it is put outside for the scrap man and arrange for a new one to be delivered.

    Leave a comment:


  • jjlandlord
    replied
    Originally posted by thesaint View Post
    It would be the tenants responsibility to pay for its removal.
    Could you elaborate on why that would be?

    Leave a comment:


  • thesaint
    replied
    Originally posted by Berlingogirl View Post
    I would have thought that if you provide something in the house as part of the TA then the T is paying a bit extra in the rent for it, for its removal and its replacement.

    I would offer it to the scrappy and buy a new one.
    We can all "think", but letting/renting is covered by laws and legislation.

    If a bulb goes, is the landlord responsible for the old ones removal/disposal? No? Why?

    Leave a comment:


  • mind the gap
    replied
    I agree. How on earth can it be the T's responsibility to remove it when it doesn't belong to him and it wasn't his fault it broke down?

    Bizarre advice from the saint!

    Leave a comment:


  • Berlingogirl
    replied
    I would have thought that if you provide something in the house as part of the TA then the T is paying a bit extra in the rent for it, for its removal and its replacement.

    I would offer it to the scrappy and buy a new one.

    Leave a comment:

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