Tenant sectioned under mental health act

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    #31
    I agree totally with LesleyAnne's post.

    In addition, you asked what I would do? For the time being I would do nothing. I certainly would not try to evict a tenant whilst they were in a mental health hospital. Your Mdother-in-law is extremely unlikely to get an eviction on the grounds of a 'discretionary clause' on an S8. She will more than likely waste court fees going down this route.

    The rent will not be stopped by HB because tenant is in hospital so the arrears will not escalate and the mortgage can be paid.

    Another thing to be considered is the re-letting fees and redecorating costs and the void period whilst getting another tenant.

    All I am saying is, your Mother-in-law has nothing to lose financially by giving a bit of time for this person to get better. At the end of the day, when the tenancy period has expired, she can get rid of this tenant 'guaranteed' using the S21 route if she still feels the need to evict.

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      #32
      Agree with lesleyanne & claymore: the landlord should do the decent, tolerant, fair thing - you know, the British way.

      Hope it works out for everyone:
      I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by Dazzer1467 View Post
        To be brutally honest I asked for legal advice not moral advice.
        That may be so but we are human and humane, our sympathies tend to go to someone that is ill, given patience and understanding this tenant may turn out to the best your MiL ever has.
        I offer no guarantee that anything I say is correct. wysiwyg

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          #34
          Originally posted by theartfullodger View Post
          Agree with lesleyanne & claymore: the landlord should do the decent, tolerant, fair thing - you know, the British way.
          I thought the British way was just to send in the gunboats!

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            #35
            Originally posted by Dazzer1467 View Post
            To be brutally honest I asked for legal advice not moral advice.
            LLZ forums are discussion forums, not legal support forums, and so you have to accept that there will be opinion mixed with advice.
            I also post as Mars_Mug when not moderating

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              #36
              JTA has a point. When the tenant is well again, they may turn out to be the best tenant. Afterall, the family seem to be very supportive in the fact that they are paying off the outstanding arrears.

              Perhaps you could be a bit more supportive to your mother-in-law and put her mind at ease with all the helpful advice you have been given on this forum.

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                #37
                Some deeply unfair criticisms of someone merely trying to understand the law and comply with it. Also the criticism seems aimed at directing the LL towards a course of action she has already decided of taking.

                As for criticism of the mortgage situation, I know of know business that can survive with zero cashflow, you only need to look at local high streets to see that. As BOTR says, there are ample proections for the T. Also I can only seek from knowledge of my locality, but from what I have seen, so called 'accidental' LL's are providing properties that are in great demand that professional investors often don't touch because the give extremely low returns - i.e. 3+ bed family houses, often detached in nice areas, most of these are making only 3-4% returns.

                Just saying, lets not get too judgemental.
                caveat emptor
                If it sounds like I know what I am talking about........I don't.

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                  #38
                  Originally posted by Wight Knight View Post

                  As for criticism of the mortgage situation, I know of know business that can survive with zero cashflow, you only need to look at local high streets to see that. As BOTR says, there are ample proections for the T. Also I can only seek from knowledge of my locality, but from what I have seen, so called 'accidental' LL's are providing properties that are in great demand that professional investors often don't touch because the give extremely low returns - i.e. 3+ bed family houses, often detached in nice areas, most of these are making only 3-4% returns.

                  Just saying, lets not get too judgemental.
                  I think it's you that's being judgmental...........of us.

                  The OP has been given the relevant information, he has also been treated to our thoughts on the matter, whether he chooses to take them on board is entirely up to him. Like it or not, social issues are as much a part of this forum as anything else.

                  Criticism in itself is not always unfair, it can often make someone think of an alternative way to achieve the desired result.
                  I offer no guarantee that anything I say is correct. wysiwyg

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                    #39
                    Originally posted by jta View Post
                    I think it's you that's being judgmental...........of us.

                    The OP has been given the relevant information, he has also been treated to our thoughts on the matter, whether he chooses to take them on board is entirely up to him. Like it or not, social issues are as much a part of this forum as anything else.

                    Criticism in itself is not always unfair, it can often make someone think of an alternative way to achieve the desired result.
                    Very well put JTA!

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                      #40
                      Originally posted by jta View Post
                      I think it's you that's being judgmental...........of us.

                      The OP has been given the relevant information, he has also been treated to our thoughts on the matter, whether he chooses to take them on board is entirely up to him. Like it or not, social issues are as much a part of this forum as anything else.

                      Criticism in itself is not always unfair, it can often make someone think of an alternative way to achieve the desired result.
                      I agree, but criticism is demonstrably unfair when it is directed at the OP after he has stated broadly that he is going to act in pretty much the way that ethically you would have him act:

                      ask to be kept informed and offer her the option to surrender.

                      i.e. to put the OP up as a strawman is unfair.

                      Social issues are important, I was pointing out that many 'accidental' landlords are performing an under-recognised social function in providing very good family housing at rates that don't even beat inflation - the converse of this is that many of them consequently have low margins for contingencies.

                      Apologies if I read too much into the posts critical of the OP, I think debate and criticism is valuable and can change minds and inform. Grateful if my comments are taken in the same spirit and not intended to be personal.
                      caveat emptor
                      If it sounds like I know what I am talking about........I don't.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by Dazzer1467 View Post
                        if it was you in the same situation what would you do ?.
                        I'd apply to evict. I need the income from my rental properties and I'm not a charity.

                        Cash contingency, as mentioned by other posters, is irrelevant. Yes, I can afford it if a tenant doesn't pay or a problem like this arises, but I will obviously do my best to eliminate the problem as soon as I can, to minimize my potential losses.

                        Originally posted by LesleyAnne View Post
                        So claiming the LL here cannot pay the mortgage due to no rent this month is not a valid excuse.
                        OP doesn't need an 'excuse' to apply to evict a non-paying tenant.

                        Instead of OP and the LL rallying round to help the T, how about the T's family (or the council) sorting out rent payments so that T doesn't get evicted?

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                          #42
                          Originally posted by westminster View Post
                          I'd apply to evict. I need the income from my rental properties and I'm not a charity.

                          Cash contingency, as mentioned by other posters, is irrelevant. Yes, I can afford it if a tenant doesn't pay or a problem like this arises, but I will obviously do my best to eliminate the problem as soon as I can, to minimize my potential losses.


                          OP doesn't need an 'excuse' to apply to evict a non-paying tenant.

                          Instead of OP and the LL rallying round to help the T, how about the T's family (or the council) sorting out rent payments so that T doesn't get evicted?
                          But that is the whole point! The family have paid off most of the six weeks rent arrears and also, the rent is now paid direct so there is no risk of the arrears escalating.

                          All I am suggesting is to give the tenant a chance to get better as the situation (financial) will not escalate - mortgage payments are being met as the rent is now being paid direct. HB will not be affected whilst the tenant is in hospital.

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                            #43
                            I am not suggesting any LL is a charity, but I feel the imminent fear of the HB being stopped has subsided for now. If this person is to stand any chance of recovery or returning to some sort of normal lifestyle, imposing an eviction on them at this precise moment is not going to help. Whilst rent is being paid, maybe wait to see the outcome of the tenant's current crisis.

                            Maybe you need to have experienced mental health issues in the family to understand how precarious the balance is between someone being rational and totally off the wall. As I said previously, tenant may never have the capacity to move back home, nor want to, but what difference is a few weeks going to make to the eviction process, which may yet prove unnecessary if the tenant cannot return home?

                            Keep up the dialogue between the tenant's mother and any support workers you may be able to access to explain your concerns and whilst you are at it, enquire about the welfare of your tenant - this is a person, a human being with issues going on beyond their control, and probably needing support and stability in their lives ... not to find themselves homeless, when a little compassion could help both the LL and tenant here!

                            If tenant was rushed to hospital with some sort of terminal illness, or critical injuries following an accident, would you still be looking to go to court next week?

                            Sorry, I'll put my soap box away now ....

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                              #44
                              My father is mentally ill (inc. occasional episodes of psychosis) so I do have experience of mental health issues and I certainly wouldn't want him as a tenant.

                              It sounds like the T has been less than ideal from day one, starting off with not paying rent even though in receipt of HB, then annoying the neighbours, then taking up carpets/redecorating without consent. Not a one-off episode, but ongoing problems which are likely to continue when the T is released from hospital. Mental health 'care in the community' is not noted for its effectiveness.

                              Mind you, I've only just noticed that OP's s.8 notice cites non-mandatory grounds, so the chances of obtaining a possession order are probably slim anyway. I would wait either until the arrears build up again and serve another s.8 citing grounds 8, 10 & 11, and/or serve a s.21 in anticipation of fixed term expiry.

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