Correct Dates For Section 21 Notice To Quit

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    Correct Dates For Section 21 Notice To Quit

    Hello first time poster,

    Within the last few days our landlord's soon to be ex-partner who is the joint landlord has sent through a Section 21 Notice To Quit order advising she wishes to take back possession of the premises on the basis of wanting to use the home as her own as part of their divorce.

    We are on a rolling contract since July 2012 because of the start of their divorce and pay our rent on the 22nd of each calendar month.

    The notice states we must leave the premises by the 15th of Feb, is this correct when our rental date is the 22nd of each month?

    This is pretty terrible at this time of year and has all of us worried and desperately need more time to raise the capital to move out.

    Thank you for any advice you can render.

    #2
    When did the tenancy start and when did the last fixed term end? When you pay rent is irrelevant, only the frequency matters (I assume monthly)

    A section 21 does not oblige you to move out, it is notifying you of the landlord's intention to apply to courts for possession after the notice expiry. Can you post the exact wording of the notice? Have you paid a deposit? Is it protected? Have you been given a copy of the deposit scheme Ts&Cs and prescribed info? (15odd pages)
    All views posted reflect my personal opinion only and do not constitute professional advice which I am not qualified or knowledgeable enough to provide.

    Comment


      #3
      As above, the S21 notice itself is not a notice to quit - LL cannot end the tenancy without a court order, and the S21 is advising you that in 2 months time they will apply to court to evict you. You can of course move out (giving your own 1 month notice) if you choose to, but the S21 cannot give you a move out date, only the court can do that!

      What date did your tenancy start? Regardless of the day you pay the rent, a periodic S21 must give 2 full months notice, with an expiry date on the last day of the tenancy period. If your tenancy runs from 22nd of each month, then the dates are incorrect and you can ignore the notice for now as it will be rejected by the courts. However, dig out your original tenancy agreement and tell us the actual tenancy start date just to be sure.

      Did you pay a deposit? Has LL protected it and given you the full prescribed information from the scheme they used? If not, then again, notice is completely invalid and until LL returns your deposit in full, they cannot serve a valid notice.

      Comment


        #4
        The Notice reads as follows:

        We give you notice that, by virtue of Section 21 of the Housing Act 1988, (I/We wasn't selected here) require possession of the dwelling house known as *address here* after 15th of February 2013.

        or, if the alternative date mentioned below is different, after the alternative date. The alternative date is the first date after this notice was given to you which is:

        *at least two months after service upon you of this notice, and

        * (if your tenancy is for a fixed term which has not ended when this notice is given to you) which is a date not earlier than the end of the fixed term, or

        * (if your tenancy is a periodic tenancy when this notice is given to you) which is the last day of a period of your tenancy and not earlier than the earliest date on which your tenancy could (apart from the landlords inability, under S.5(1) of the Housing Act 1988, to terminate an assured tenancy by notice to quit) lawfully be ended by a notice to quit given to you on the same date as this notice.

        Dated - 10/12/2012.

        Our tenancy began on the 22nd of July 2011 and ended as a fixed term on the 22nd of July 2012 turning into a "rolling" contract tenancy at that point.

        Our deposit is part of the Deposit protection scheme which the male counterpart of the landlords has provided all the documentation we need regarding it at the start of the tenancy.

        Comment


          #5
          Hmmm. The 15th of February is probably incorrect, but the saving text under it, should be ok. which actually means that the notice will have an expiry date of the 21st (or 22nd) of February.

          Are you sure an end date of the 22nd of July is specified? What you describe above is a fixed term of 12 months and 1 day.

          If they indeed action the notice straight after the 21st of February, you are looking to move around Easter. Obviously, if you want to move, you can by giving your own notice.

          The notice you have been served does not end the tenancy
          All views posted reflect my personal opinion only and do not constitute professional advice which I am not qualified or knowledgeable enough to provide.

          Comment


            #6
            Sorry what I meant by the change on the July 2012 date was that this changed on the 22nd into a rolling contract instead of fixed length.

            Well if what you say happens, this does give us more time.

            Thank you.

            Comment


              #7
              My opinion is that the S.21 notice has an invalid date as far as seeking possession is concerned and should be "after 21st February 2013". I don't consider the wording on the S.21 Notice to be effective until after 21st March 2013 at the earliest. Anybody else have an opinion?
              The advice I give should not be construed as a definitive answer, and is without prejudice or liability. You are advised to consult a specialist solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Paul_f View Post
                My opinion is that the S.21 notice has an invalid date as far as seeking possession is concerned and should be "after 21st February 2013".
                Yes, but what about the saving clause? It seems to make it unambiguous, and thus potentially valid, that date is actually "after 21st March".

                Comment


                  #9
                  Dated - 10/12/2012.

                  Our tenancy began on the 22nd of July 2011 and ended as a fixed term on the 22nd of July 2012 turning into a "rolling" contract tenancy at that point.
                  The notice was served on or shortly after 10th December 2012. The tenancy periods run 22nd - 21st of the month. The earliest expiry date should have been "after 21st February 2013".

                  But IMO the saving words are questionable and poorly drafted:

                  I/we require possession of the dwelling house known as *address here* after 15th of February 2013, or, if the alternative date mentioned below is different, after the alternative date. The alternative date is the first date after this notice was given to you which is: at least two months after service upon you of this notice, and which is the last day of a period of your tenancy
                  It's the old two dates argument; s.21(4)(a) requires "a" date, singular.

                  In Elias v Spencer, the court was okay with:

                  After: 22ND NOVEMBER 2008 or,
                  if this notice would otherwise be ineffective, after the date being the earliest date not earlier than two months after the date of service of this notice when shall expire a period of the assured shorthold tenancy.
                  but the underlined phrases are very different, the former more ambiguous, and I'm not sure one could be certain that the court would accept the notice served on MrTiger as valid.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    The saving clause here is no more ambiguous than the one in Elias v Spencer.
                    Actually, imho it is easier to understand for the tenant than one in Elias v Spencer: Date is alternative one if it "is different" v if quoted date is incorrect (what clause in Elias v Spencer basically says).

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I have to agree that the section 21 notice is 'dubious' for its reliability but I would suggest that MrTiger does attempt to move out by 21 Feb as if the landlord has to go down the court route MrTiger may end up being ordered to refund the landlords court fees (£175) and possibly legal costs too.

                      MrTiger. Did you pay a deposit to the landlord? Have you been given any information about deposit protection?

                      Mrs Landlord may be desperate to move in - maybe she would be willing to cover your removal costs in exchange for a smooth transition?

                      Alternatively - how fractious is the Mr/Mrs Landlord relationship? If Mr landlord were to issue you with a new 6/12 month tenancy then Mrs Landlords s21 would become worthless.

                      Comment

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