Wear-and-tear / safety glass door

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    #16
    jackboy,

    I disagree. You do not need to do a risk assessment to realise that doors with thin glass in the lower half are a high risk to adults' safety, let alone children's and that it simply is not realistic to supervise children closely all day long in their own homes. The other high risk issues in homes (stairs, open windows, sharp corners on low furniture, electricity sockets and poisons), are all much more easily dealt with so they do not pose a threat.

    It is a no-brainer to have glass low down in doors which will shatter and splinter and could sever someone's artery, when there are much safer alternatives.

    The fact that you survived a lot of glass doors in the 70s proves only that you were lucky, I suspect. Most children who ride their bikes to school will survive, but some won't. It isn't an argument for being lax about cycle safety.
    'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

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      #17
      Haha, maybe I was lucky. I think they are dangerous. Just so you know you must have replied whilst I was editing my post as it now appears slightly differently to the one u replied to. Cheers

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        #18
        Hi,

        thanks for all the replies. Firstly I do supervise my children but sometimes these things just happen! Secondly I just spoke to my landlord who says there's no regulations regarding internal doors, I broke it so I have to pay.

        Thanks again for your help.

        Saff

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          #19
          Not implying anything about the specific case, just curious in general.

          Say a tenant views a property and accepts it as suitable. It is later on identified that some of the property's particularls (say staircases, doors, furniture, etc) are not suitable for the tenants situation (kids / elderly etc). Does that impose an obligation to the landlord to make alterations to the property to make it suitable for the tenant? Isnt it the tenants responsibility to ensure that the property is suitable? Not all tenants view prospective properties with the full family.
          All views posted reflect my personal opinion only and do not constitute professional advice which I am not qualified or knowledgeable enough to provide.

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            #20
            Yes you're probably right, I guess as a tenant sometimes you get excited at the thought of a new house when you've been struggling to find one and just say yes. And for 4.5 years obviously I've managed not to smash it, all I was asking was if it was meant to have any kind of safety glass in it, it appears not and I will now have to find the money to replace it. :-)

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              #21
              Like I said, it wasnt meant for this specific case. In this case, I think you should be happy your kid didnt get hurt and not worry too much, as accidents happen. As for the replacement, members have suggested the LL is to pay for accidental damage. I would say it could be an opportunity discussing with the LL to see if he would be willing to change it to safety glass, with a contribution from you. I think he would want to avoid the risk of something happening to your family, even if I personally believe that the ultimate liability falls on the tenants to assess the suitability of the property.

              I am still interested in the other members' thoughts as to whether a LL should be required to make a property suitable even if the tenants accepted it as suitable themselves when agreeing to the tenancy. (excluding LL's legal obligations of course). We get quite a few people asking related questions every day. "I viewed the property, £X was a good deal and then I've decided I need a list of 100 things fixed as the property is not up to scratch and its dangerous for my kid/father-in-law"
              All views posted reflect my personal opinion only and do not constitute professional advice which I am not qualified or knowledgeable enough to provide.

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                #22
                Well in all honesty he did get hurt and I spent sat eve in a & e but it was only a bit of glue and some steristrips, they try not to stitch things nowadays. I am very glad it wasnt more serious. From talking to my landlord this morning I will be footing the bill. Oh well...onwards and upwards!!!

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                  #23
                  We often get tenants who accept a property, go through the whole admin process, move in to the property and then expect the landlord to make changes because suddenly it doesn't suit them; new carpets, new curtains, change the appliances, move the beds, put beds in, the list goes on and on. One even said they thought there was a conservatory and would the landlord put one on!

                  In this case I think the landlord should try to claim on his insurance but the tenant should have noted the glass doors, and seen the potential safety issue to her young children, when they moved in and mentioned it at that point.

                  Why do walls get grubby when young children live in a property? my kids never made the walls grubby
                  My advice is not based on formal legal training but experience gained in 20+ years in the letting industry.

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                    #24
                    Clearly a better parent than I!!!

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                      #25
                      As a decorator I also do small glazing jobs and it is my understanding that if you are replacing an internal glass pane building regs state that it must be replaced with a toughened glass, not just ordinary 4mm window glass.
                      'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

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                        #26
                        In all honesty replacing a half-door pane of glass should cost next to nothing.

                        ML
                        Refer Mad Regulators to Arkell vs Pressdram.

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by mind the gap View Post
                          As a decorator I also do small glazing jobs and it is my understanding that if you are replacing an internal glass pane building regs state that it must be replaced with a toughened glass, not just ordinary 4mm window glass.
                          correct, most glaziers refuse to sell you 4mm over a certain size
                          My advice is not based on formal legal training but experience gained in 20+ years in the letting industry.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by mind the gap View Post
                            It is unreasonable to expect parents to supervise a child in its own home 24 hours a day to make sure it doesn't fall through a low pane of glass which is not toughened.

                            Whatever the legal position, common sense says that the glass door should have had safety glass installed in it by the LL before he let the property to a family with children, or been replaced by a wooden door.

                            Now that the pane has been broken, it is the LL's legal responsibility to replace it with toughened/safety glass and not with ordinary glass. Whether or not he charges you for that repair will depend on how decent he is. If he has any sense, he won't.
                            The child is not deemed a 'responsible individual' therefore the parents are responsible for it's conduct - 24 hours for each and every day. If the child causes damage, it's the parents responsibility and therefore should pay for it. The same argument goes for a puppy that eats the skirting board. It's the responsibility of those that chose to have it - child, puppy, horse, granny etc.
                            The parents may not have chosen to install the glass in the door, but they did accept the tenancy knowing it was there. Just because it was fragile doesn't justify breaking things. It may be right and justified to now replace it with safety glass, but until the moment it was broke, the pane was a fully functioning fixture of the property.
                            I may be a housing professional but my views, thoughts, opinions, advice, criticisms or otherwise on this board are mine and are not representative of my company, colleagues, managers. I am here as an independent human being who simply wants to learn new stuff, share ideas and interact with like minded people.

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