Section 21 validity?

[xoAmyox]

I'd be grateful for some advice to determine if the S21 I have been served is valid.

The tenancy agreement is dated 1st June 2012, but then on the 2nd page states 'You will have the property and the furniture for <blank> from 9th June 2012 to 11am on 9th December 2012. I moved in on 9th June.

Deposit was paid and I think it was protected, but I can't find any paperwork on it, so I'm not sure.

The noticed served says:

Housing Act 1988 (Section 21 (1) (b) notice)

Notice relating to recovery of possession of dwelling let on an assured tenancy or assured shorthold tenancy

To: <me>
Of: <my address>

I YOUR LANDLORD
<LL name>

HEREBY GIVE YOU NOTICE THAT UNDER S21 HOUSING ACT 1988 I REQUIRE POSSESSION OF THE DWELLING HOUSE KNOWN AS:

<my address>

After 8th January 2013

Dated 9th November 2012

Name and and address of landlord
<name and address>

Signed and printed.

Saver clause:

We require possession on a specified date OR at the end of the period of your tenancy which will next end after the expiry of two months from service of this notice on you.

[MSaxp]

I would only argue that the 8th of January is less than 2 months away

[Interlaken]

If the tenancy began on the 1st June the tenancy period runs 1st - 31st noot 9th - 8th surely?

xoAmyox - finding out what has happened to your deposit is crucial. Check online with the holders. If you rented via an agent try the TDS first.

[xoAmyox]

I'm honestly not sure on the tenancy period, as the agreement is conflicting. I'm not sure it was a 'tenancy' as such until I accepted it by moving in maybe?

I've looked at the DPS website as I seem to remember the landlord mentioning it, but it asks for a reference number. I'll search further for any paperwork in the morning.

[Interlaken]

A tenancy agreement does not always begin the day you move in. It begins of the date it says it begins and since it is dated the 1st that would seem reasonable.

I never date my agreements until the day the tenant moves in.

[westminster]

The tenancy agreement is dated 1st June 2012, but then on the 2nd page states 'You will have the property and the furniture for <blank> from 9th June 2012 to 11am on 9th December 2012. I moved in on 9th June.

Then it would seem that the contract was agreed on 1st June, and the tenancy/fixed term commenced 9th June. Perfectly normal to agree a contract before the start of the tenancy.

Deposit was paid and I think it was protected, but I can't find any paperwork on it, so I'm not sure.

This is crucial. Any s.21 notice will be invalid if you have not been given the prescribed information (this is several pages, not just a one page certificate, but it may possibly be incorporated into the tenancy contract).

HEREBY GIVE YOU NOTICE THAT UNDER S21 HOUSING ACT 1988 I REQUIRE POSSESSION OF THE DWELLING HOUSE KNOWN AS:

<my address> After 8th January 2013

Dated 9th November 2012

If the notice was served by hand on 9th November, then the earliest expiry date would be 'after 9th January 2013', because the date of service is not included in the notice period. So an expiry date of 'after 8th January 2013' gives less than the required minimum of two months.

However, in spite of the purported date of 'issue' of the notice, it's still possible that the date of service was earlier than 9th November 2012. For example, the LL may have posted the notice on Monday 5th November - we simply don't know. In other words, it's still possible that the notice is valid in terms of the length of the notice period.

Bear in mind that, even if valid, a s.21 notice is not a notice to quit. It does not end the tenancy nor oblige you to vacate at notice expiry. It merely entitles the LL to apply for a possession order. If you wish to unilaterally end the tenancy meanwhile, then you must either vacate on or before 9th December/fixed term expiry, or, if you remain in occupation after 9th December and a periodic tenancy arises, then you must serve notice to quit on or after 10th December.

[xoAmyox]

If the notice was served by hand on 9th November, then the earliest expiry date would be 'after 9th January 2013', because the date of service is not included in the notice period. So an expiry date of 'after 8th January 2013' gives less than the required minimum of two months.

However, in spite of the purported date of 'issue' of the notice, it's still possible that the date of service was earlier than 9th November 2012. For example, the LL may have posted the notice on Monday 5th November - we simply don't know. In other words, it's still possible that the notice is valid in terms of the length of the notice period.

Bear in mind that, even if valid, a s.21 notice is not a notice to quit. It does not end the tenancy nor oblige you to vacate at notice expiry. It merely entitles the LL to apply for a possession order. If you wish to unilaterally end the tenancy meanwhile, then you must either vacate on or before 9th December/fixed term expiry, or, if you remain in occupation after 9th December and a periodic tenancy arises, then you must serve notice to quit on or after 10th December.[/QUOTE]

I can definitely say that the notice was served by the LL in the afternoon yesterday. So it seems that the dates are short?
Can he serve another one at any time if he notices?

[boletus]

I've looked at the DPS website as I seem to remember the landlord mentioning it, but it asks for a reference number.

You can check without the reference number here (leave the deposit ID box blank);

https://www.depositprotection.com/is...osit-protected

Unfortunately the system is flawed in that it will only come up if all the details you enter are exactly the same as that held by the DPS.
If it doesn't come up first time, try adjusting the date/amount. If you don't have the deposit ID, don't assume it isn't registered just because you can't find it using tenancy details.

[thesaint]

If the notice was served by hand on 9th November, then the earliest expiry date would be 'after 9th January 2013', because the date of service is not included in the notice period. So an expiry date of 'after 8th January 2013' gives less than the required minimum of two months.

However, in spite of the purported date of 'issue' of the notice, it's still possible that the date of service was earlier than 9th November 2012. For example, the LL may have posted the notice on Monday 5th November - we simply don't know. In other words, it's still possible that the notice is valid in terms of the length of the notice period.

Is the saving clause invalid?

Saver clause:

We require possession on a specified date OR at the end of the period of your tenancy which will next end after the expiry of two months from service of this notice on you.

[westminster]

Sorry, somehow missed the saver clause, but there is room for argument that it provides two alternative dates, not 'a' date as per s.21(4)(a) and, rightly or wrongly, a county court judge could rule against on that basis. It's all academic if LL hasn't given OP the prescribed information, anyway.

[westminster]

Can he serve another one at any time if he notices?

Yes, the LL can serve any number of s.21 notices.