Church in the front room

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    Church in the front room

    My new tenants want to run Sunday church services from their front room.

    I am rather concerned about the planning/insurance/fire safety aspect of having up to 30 people seated in a through room of about 31 sq metres.

    Has anyone any experience of this?

    #2
    Not sure about that one. Would it be allowed?

    I wonder how disruptive it could be to your neighbours - parking, noise etc.

    Comment


      #3
      There are two stair cases between living areas on one side, but I am not sure that the other side will be best pleased with the sound of hymns and praying every sunday morning.

      Parking problems will be far less of a problem than the friday jams caused by two mosques in the vicinity.

      I am already on the case with the fire safety officer.

      You say 'is it allowed'. My problem is I do not know who to contact to find out.

      Comment


        #4
        Tell them it's not a church. It's a house.

        Comment


          #5
          I'd say that 30 in 31sqm is not bad for a 'party' type event; it is if they get more or it is long term and regular.

          I think you need to focus strictly on the impact not the type of event.

          If it's just 'friends around for a sing-song', then you will be down to Nuisance procedures imo.

          Any interference could be harrassment and interference with the Right to ... er ... Quiet Enjoyment, and I don't think you can reasonably react until something untoward has happened several times.

          If it is a public and/or advertised event, then it may be different (Change of Use?), depending on what is in your Agreement - you could argue that it is analagous to a business.

          Are they Pentecostals or another noisy tradition? Or Quakers?

          Do they have drums?

          Do they have microphones and speakers to amplify the drums ?

          If it works and they grow, then they will have to either move out or introduce an afternoon service as well.

          I'd say ask for what they plan (what? how long? is it actually a Bible Study or House Group not a service? how much singing?), and note verbally that neighbours may be worried by noise, but see how it goes.

          Will it be every week? Sensible church organisers will rotate the venue if they are in homes.

          Will it be any noisier than MTV or a war film on the box?

          However, it could be a sign of long-term tenants, and you could take the traditional LLZ "it's between you and your neighbours" view.

          ML
          Refer Mad Regulators to Arkell vs Pressdram.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by citizenz View Post
            My new tenants want to run Sunday church services from their front room.
            Just when I thought we'd heard every possible tenant issue there could ever be...


            ..."The tenant from Heaven", perhaps?

            Comment


              #7
              I would tell them a definite NO.

              Tell them the premises are let as a residential home, it
              was used as a residential home by you, and HAS to continue
              to be used as such.

              If they wish to have meetings, then they either go to a
              church or hire a room, and you cannot allow any tenants
              to use your premises as a community hall or church.

              Your lease will probably say to use only as a famly home, so
              without showing them the lease ( you don't have to show
              it to them, ) tell them it is against your lease, and that you
              cannot allow such gatherings.

              see Bungallow used as a mosque, with 150 people gathering.


              http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...rshippers.html

              ( slow loading page )

              R.a.M.

              Comment


                #8
                You need to look at your tenancy agreement and see if you have prohibitions against any of the following:

                ·doing anything which prejudices the insurance

                ·using the property other than for residential purposes

                ·holding meetings

                ·doing anything which requires planning permission

                ·doing anything contrary to the lawful requirements of any competent authority

                As to complying with planning and other regulations, it may come down to a question of degree.

                Comment


                  #9


                  My last two tenants have been the tenants from Hell, so I thought I had been very careful this time.

                  I have done burnt furniture, drugs, non paid rent, cockroaches, mould, urine and everything being damaged and broken etc etc I personally have painted the entire house three times in the past four years. I had hoped for a quieter life.

                  I do not think there will be drumming but guitar and keyboard maybe and perhaps30 people mumbling and singing at the same time. And when they say 30 I will assume they have forgotten the children, because several members of this community wanted to rent the house and when I asked how many people, they tended to ignore the children and even grandparents in their calculations.

                  I think it will be every Sunday with Xmas and Good Friday as well because not many others will have such a large through room. I think they want to stop being peripatitic and find a home in my house. I do not know the form the service takes I consider it none of my business. As you say I am trying to simply focus on the safety and nuisance aspects.

                  I will check out about noise nuisance. Thanks for this lead midlandsll. I have already found about the Public Order Act and am investigating that.

                  It is already causing me hassle having to try and find out what rules apply. They have only had the house a week and I am already stressed.

                  There is plenty of stuff around about running mosques from houses. There was a big rumour that people were declaring their houses were mosques to avoid council tax but it seems that if they live in it they are out of luck from that point of view. But I do not think they sing in mosques.

                  I am not anti from a religious point of view at all, I am not into religion personally. But I am against the cost of replacing the carpet unnecessarily, being forced to pay for sound proofing and being held responsible in anyway if some kind of accident occurs with too many people in a small space. And the cost in terms of time, hassle, and petrol sorting the matter out.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Just say no - if they had the intention to do it they should have asked before, think it is a huge can of worms and as you say the extra wear and problems.

                    I have found altars with crystal skulls while doing repairs

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Oh dear the thread has got out of order my roll over laughing was for the comment about the tenants from Heaven.

                      I suppose since they are on a 6 month short term lease that I have the option of terminating at the end of six months.

                      It may be that an hour a week of 'friends getting together for a weekly sing song' mid morning might be the least of the worries as far as neighbours are concerned. I was thinking of letting to a group of students. And there have been previous issues regarding shouting, vandalism, aggressive dog and late night parties. All also prohibited under the lease.

                      I think in every other respect they may be great tenants and neighbours.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        (In my opinion..) not a chance.. they sound like religious loonies, I'd not touch them with a very-long barge-pole...

                        Any church that can't organise it's own building/hire-a-hall doesn't sound terribly well run does it...

                        Of course, it could be a cunning cover for wife/swapping or orgies ... nah, even then & with a invite, no.....
                        I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                        Comment


                          #13
                          As above.
                          I write again, as you should say NO. It is not a meeting place, a
                          village hall, a church or a back room in a pub.
                          It is for RESIDENTIAL FAMILY use only. which does not include regular
                          gatherings.

                          Regular gatherings are conducted elsewhere, and must not be in
                          your home.

                          Stop being stupid. Say no, with ALL the reasons you have been given.

                          R.a.M.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Out of order?

                            Us?

                            We're just a group you invited into your virtual front room ...

                            ML
                            Refer Mad Regulators to Arkell vs Pressdram.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              A woman in our village, who rents her home, has a very large through lounge. The local playgroup can't afford the village hall fees (long story!) so every week she and a number (up to 15) of other parents plus their children meet at her house for a kind of free, informal playgroup session. Sometimes they have music on for the children to dance to, but mainly it's just playing and talking and storytelling. It lasts an hour or so.

                              I am struggling to see how that is unreasonable, or how it is significantly different from what OP's tenant is proposing.
                              'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

                              Comment

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