Landlord demands address details from girlfriend

[Ryu84]

Hi,

I live in a self contained flat within a larger block which has an HMO license. As such, the landlord is responsible for the council tax.

I also have girlfriend who stays over regularly, some weeks spending more time in my flat than her own.

In the past, the landlord has asked if my girlfriend is living with me, citing concerns over the number of people staying and council tax, and I have assured him that this is not the case. Today, however, he has approached my girlfriend and required that she gives him her full address details so that he can 'verify' that she is not in fact living there.

While I understand his concerns, I feel that this is unacceptable not least because he approached my girlfriend and not me about the matter. If there are any rules against this sort of behaviour (ie harassment of visitors), it would be helpful to have some advice so that I can make him aware of this when I next speak to him.

I also do not understand what use my girlfriend's address is to him and how he can in any way verify that she does live at the address. As such I feel inclined not to give it to him. Some advice on what good this is and/or any alternative suggestions on how to assure him that I am the only person resident in the flat would be helpful also. Thanks in advance.

[theartfullodger]

Extraordinary, presumptuous behaviour. My initial reaction was I'd tell him to f... off: perhaps better a calm polite letter complaining of his impertinent intrusive behaviour & noting you regard it as harassment.

Expect s21 by return

I understand his concern but his response seems excessive.

[mind the gap]

If your g/f is living at your house on average more than 50% of the time, I can see why it might begin to look like her main residence.

Because of this your LL will be concerned about the single-occupant Council Tax rebate he is claiming.

You could of course get him off your back by offering to make the CT up to the full amount...or reduce the percentage of time your g/f lives at yours...or go the whole hog and ask if she can live there permanently (if that's the way it's heading) for slightly more rent...or ignore him.

His demand for her address is inappropriate, though. It's none of his business where she lives and I cannot see how the address could be useful to him unless he intends to hire a PI to trail her.

[theartfullodger]

Sinister possibility: he fancies her & wants to try his chances?

[sparkie]

Sinister possibility: he fancies her & wants to try his chances?

[Ryu84]

Thank you for your replies. I have absolutely no intention of paying any more money to the landlord while my girlfriend is paying rent, bills and receiving post at another flat, no way, no how. As for her moving in permanently, definitely not into that either!

I feel that this issue is mostly down to a lack of trust. There was an incident regarding damage to shared areas where he was clear that I was one of the people he suspected in comparison to the tenant across the hall who 'wouldn't do it' because he was a 'nice guy'. It is clear that some of the other tenants have a good relationship with him, I'm not sure exactly what I have done to make him mistrust me.

I think the best thing I can do, that won't provoke any further untoward response, is to give him some form of reassurance/legal protection while being clear that I won't bend to any unreasonable requests. Would a signed declaration that I am the only resident be enough for this?

[thesaint]

Do you pay all the bills apart from the council tax?

Asking your girlfriend this question does not amount to harassment. People over use that word, when it should be reserved for proper cases.

[Ryu84]

I pay for the electricity used in the flat, hot water is included in the rent. I do feel that him approaching anyone who visits the flat about any matter which should really be directed to me is very untoward, and possibly against my rights as a tenant.

[thesaint]

So your landlord is paying money out of his own pocket for your girlfriend staying there.

[mind the gap]

I pay for the electricity used in the flat, hot water is included in the rent. I do feel that him approaching anyone who visits the flat about any matter which should really be directed to me is very untoward, and possibly against my rights as a tenant.

But if your g/f is spending more than half the time living at yours over a long period, then she ceases to become a 'visitor'. Her being there means that your consumption of hot water will have increased (twice the number of showers/baths, washing machine/dishwasher use, etc)) whereas your rent is presumably based on single occupancy.

I appreciate that it's a grey area (when exactly does a visitor become a resident and how does one prove it?), but if you continue to risk breaching your tenancy contract like this, you may find that you are asked to leave at the end of the fixed term. Would that bother you?

If so, then perhaps you need to respect the spirit of your contract a bit more by spending an equal amount of time at your g/f's flat, using her hot water, etc., to make up for what she uses at yours.

If not, then carry on exactly as you are and, as artful suggests, expect a s21 Notice.

[Ryu84]

So your landlord is paying money out of his own pocket for your girlfriend staying there.

You could look at it that way, but I think that would unreasonable. It seems fair for anyone who includes any bills in the rent to make reasonable allowances for visitors to the flat, girlfriends staying over etc and if they do not wish to do so then this should at least be made clear to anyone moving in and be part of the tenancy agreement. It is true that my girlfriend has spent a lot of time in the flat recently, indeed some weeks this has been 4 nights out of 7. But I doubt very much that the extra hot water used amounts to any substantial amount of money.

I should also add that my room was originally advertised as a double room (even if not for two people to stay permanently) and I am fairly sure that I am not in any breach of my contract

The main concern, as the landlord has stated, is with the council tax. In particular that he is liable to a fine if the council were to decide that my girlfriend does live there permanently (an I state again that she does not).

[SouthWestCouple]

1. You Landlord is purely covering his own back should the Local Authority question the number of people on his HMO Licence v the number they believe are actually staying there. IF they question him, he will provide your GFs address as her residence.

2. BUT, if she is staying with you more than she is staying at her own place then she IS living at the HMO and I think your LL has every right to be concerned. Remember, you can just move but he could face severe penalties.

3. TBH with the extra bills your LL is now paying, I think you're taking the mick and if I was your LL I would have you out the door ASAP. There are plenty of tenants out there!!

[mind the gap]

1. You Landlord is purely covering his own back should the Local Authority question the number of people on his HMO Licence v the number they believe are actually staying there. IF they question him, he will provide your GFs address as her residence.

2. BUT, if she is staying with you more than she is staying at her own place then she IS living at the HMO and I think your LL has every right to be concerned. Remember, you can just move but he could face severe penalties.

3. TBH with the extra bills your LL is now paying, I think you're taking the mick and if I was your LL I would have you out the door ASAP. There are plenty of tenants out there!!

I would concur with all of that, except that the LL should not need to give the g/f's details to anyone. Presumably someone has complained - or the g/f has been there so often that LL has noticed it?

Either way I think OP needs to decide what he wants, as the situation as it is now probably cannot continue.

BTW, the reference to a 'double room' does not mean that two people are expected to sleep in it on a permanent base; it's just an indicator of size.

[theartfullodger]

Suggestion:

Your g/frnd writes to local authority (that you pay for..) a letter stating where else she is paaying council tax, "re. query over Flat C, 63 Acacia Avenue".. Supply copy to LL with her address fuzzed out. If he ain't happy with that they waht is it he wants or is he, perhaps, on the fiddle somewhere/somehow...

That he is asking for her adress still sounds fishy to me..

Just my thoughts, feel free to ignore me.. (most, including wife & kids do...)..

[mind the gap]

You could look at it that way, but I think that would unreasonable. It seems fair for anyone who includes any bills in the rent to make reasonable allowances for visitors to the flat, girlfriends staying over etc

Yes, they do. But you seem to be taking this 'reasonable' expectation into unreasonable territory!