Query re N5 & N119 claim forms

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    Query re N5 & N119 claim forms

    Dear Members

    I am hoping one of the obvious legal experts can help me with the following query:

    I am currently working on the N5 and N119 forms and do not want to make a silly technical error that will see my case thrown out of court before I even get there as time is of the essence!!!

    The court action relates to "thieving tenant" of my previous thread (last week) and as he does not intend to move out voluntarily I obviously have to go down the legal route. I have already issued a section 8 with a covering letter explaining that I will start court proceedings today. I am stating grounds 8, 10, 11, 12, 14 and 17. His wife lives with him but her name does not appear on the tenancy agreement. I have issued her with a section 8 as well (just in case this proves necessary). The grounds are much the same but the explanations differ slightly.

    My question is as this.... Do I have to complete the N5 and N119 for both or just one set of forms? If only one set of forms required do I name both as the defendants or just the guy who is named on the tenancy agreement and was the only to sign the tenancy agreement?

    I just don't want to find myself in the situation of issuing just one set of forms naming him as defendant (but stating that she lives at the address also) to find that when the court orders a possession against the guy that she might claim some sort of 'squatters rights' (for want of a better description).

    Any advice that can be given will be very gratefully received.

    Thanks in advance.


    If his is the only name on the tenancy, you issue proceedings against him only. When the bailiff comes, he will remove everyone from the premises.


      Thanks for that info RichieP. That should cut down my paperwork (if only slightly).

      As a matter of interest would you (or another member) know what would happen regards the proceedings if the lovely tenants decide to vacate voluntarily prior to the court hearing date? If this scenario was to happen I can pretty much guarantee that rent would remain outstanding, the property will have been trashed, and I'd be out of pocket for the court costs etc.

      Would the hearing date still stand in relation to getting an order for the rent arrears and court costs (not to mention the costs that might be incurred if they do trash the place)???

      Fore-warned being fore-armed and all that....

      Many Thanks



        My thoughts on this are that unless the tenant actually hands over the keys to the property neither you or the Court should assume that they have left.

        If you assume incorrectly that the tenant has left and the tenant returns you might be accused of illegal eviction (expensive consequences for you it proven)

        You are entitled to rent until the date on which you gain possession and tenants may not comply with Court Order for Possession and await eviction by a bailiff.

        With regard to damages you can deal with these through Moneyclaim on line

        You should send a letter to the tenant making an appointment to carry out an inspection under the terms of the AST. You can then check the incoming inventory and condition report and both you and the tenant endorse any changes or comments with a dated signature.

        In any case you should try an aim for such an inspection at the handover of keys.

        If it is a 'moonlight' then document and photograph the condition of the property as found at your first opportunity to carry out an inspection.

        Don't forget though if your tenant is a 'man of straw' even if you get a Court judgement the next issue will be how to get payment. Some don't seem to worry too much about ignoring CCJ's
        Vic - wicked landlord
        Any advice or suggestions given in my posts are intended for guidance only and not a substitute for completing full searches on this forum, having regard to the advice of others, or seeking appropriate professional opinion.
        Without Plain English Codes of Practice and easy to complete Prescribed Forms the current law is too complex and is thus neither fair to good tenants nor good landlords.


          Thanks for your thoughts Worldlife. I am well aware of the rules of abdonement (just recently dealt with one but eventually did get the keys from the tenant via a friend of his so avoided having to get possession order).

          However, my query relates to if my "thieving tenant" hands his keys over before the hearing date (once it is set). I think the guy will aim to cost me as much as he can in retalitation of the fact he's been arrested and will be facing charges for his acts of theft and deception! My guess is he may hand the keys over at the very last minute and I just wondered if I would have to cancel the court hearing in this eventuality? Or would I be able to continue with the set hearing date to obtain an order for rent arrears & costs etc?

          Clarification would be useful. This guy already caused me a load of inconvenience and additional costs this weekend cos his front door lock broke and he was threatening to seek funds from me in the event of his possessions being stolen!!! I had to call a locksmith urgently because I think we can all hazard a guess at what would've happened if I hadn't got it seen to immediately!!! I'm convinced he was planning a set up (funny his lock should break on a Sunday of all days and very conveniently the day before I was submitting the N5 & N119 to the courts)!

          I can guarantee if anything can go wrong with a property between now and court it will (he claimed to have a problem with electrics last week after I chased rent from him again). I envisage I'm going to have a nightmarish few months whilst waiting for the court to act! As if life isn't stressful enough!!!



            Sorry to hear about all your problems. My tenants left keys in my letterbox on the day of the S8 hearing at which I was awarded possession. They left the place a complete wreck and owing £2000 in back rent. I do not have an address for them. The council refuse to give it to me even though they are claiming benefit elsewhere in the county. However even if I did have one there would be no point in throwing good money after bad - they are "men of straw". You will (sadly) probably have to resign yourself to losing the rent and bearing the cost of the clear up. Wrong and frustrating but that is how it is.
            Also the "problems" with the property may be things he intends to come to court with and explain how he has suffered at the hands of the evil landlord and how you left his house in terrible disrepair and this is why he withheld the rent... be careful they will try anything! Mine was "drains"!
            Unshackled by the chains of idle vanity, A modest manatee, that's me


              Thanks for your comments islandgirl. I know what you mean about him coming to court armed with 'problems' at the property! Thankfully I will be prepared for that chestnut! I had only just finished the renovations on the property (£20k's worth I might add) and had fairly recently had the property valued for mortgage purposes (so it was was absolutely immaculate in every way). I also took photos (thank goodness for the invention of the digital camera) and have independent witnesses prior to tenant occupying the property.

              When the police did the search they did tell me the property was looking like it was being looked after well (obviously a house-proud thief and accomplice). The Locksmith that was there on Sunday also commented on what a lovely property it is! No doubt I would be able to call upon those persons to give witness testimony if the situation arose whereby they trash the place! ???

              The property had it's electrical inspection on October 2007 (so that should cover the electrics - pray tell if I am wrong on that score) and the annual gas inspection is due to be done tomorrow (so that angle will be covered).

              However, even if he did claim I was a rouge landlord (who met the prime-minister last year for my endeavours in the voluntary/community sector - good character referee maybe?) I doubt he would have a leg to stand on (straw or otherwise) with the crimes he has committed! I also have other tenants who could come to my defence I suppose.

              The only problem with that property was the front door which was difficult to shut. Upon moving in I asked them to let me know when they would be in all day so that I could get Safestyle out to the problem (the windows and doors were all still under guarantee - new in fact!). They never got back to me about that unitl I started asking for rent. At that time I reminded them I had asked them to let me know when they would be in and again asked them to let me know when would be convenient (I still have the text on my mobile to prove this fact).

              The electrical problem they've thrown at me arose the last time I asked for rent. They claimed three tvs and the washer had blown up but hadn't mentioned a problem to me (in writing or otherwise) prior to me asking for the rent. I ask you? Who lets 3 tvs blow up and doesn't mention it to landlord???

              As for the washer - it was got out of one of the catalogues they had opened in my name (saw details when police asked me to look at their findings after the search following his arrest). I told tenant that the washer was in my name and that it would still be under guarantee so to call them out to it!!! Not unreasonable in the circumstances!!! Sure someone will put me right if they think that was unreasonable.

              Anyway, getting the gas check done tomoz so that they can't sit in their car overnight with the hose pipe attached to exhaust and then claim I nearly killed them with a faulty gas appliance!!! LOL

              Any more angles I need to cover folks? I'd be interested and grateful to hear them all....

              Kind Regards

              Last edited by Joannepowell; 23-01-2007, 15:18 PM. Reason: typo


                Any issues like getting the gas check done, the door done etc, if they don't co-operate, put it in writing and keep a copy. They can't claim you've neglected repairs after that.


                  Just out of curiosity, if your tenants did trash your house before leaving, could it be reported to the police as criminal damage or is it considered a civil matter?


                    Thanks for your responses RichieP and DianeB. Richie I am defo putting everything in writing and keeping texts as evidence! With regards your query DianeB - the police tell me that I will be able to report it as criminal damage but that we would have to be able to prove it was the tenants!!!

                    Apparently, CPS won't allow charges to be brought without sufficient evidence to ensure a good chance of conviction! Ridiculous I know but it's the way of the world... like i've said in a previous thread it would appear that crime does pay (& rather well at that!).

                    My tenant has actually made more money since renting my property than I have renting the property out to him! Do the maths - to date I have received £400 deposit (refundable) and £360 (£40 short) for first month's advance rent. The tenant has stolen a parcel from me which I paid £95.00 for (this parcel contained goods that were for re-sale in my e-bay shop and had a re-sale value of almost £300 prior to xmas). He has had £1,444 worth of catalogue goods (which included washer/dryer, leather jacket and mobile phone) and he stands to be paid £400 pcm in housing benefit (cos I can't get it in my name til he's 8 wks in arrears by which time he will actually be 3 mths in arrears as per tenancy agreement!).

                    I rest my case - tenant defo earns more than me!!!



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