Tenant not leaving - can she claim not to have received notice?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • iquit
    replied
    Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
    Please don't be agrieved because your tenant is requiring you to respect her legal rights.

    I am sure that you would feel agrieved if someone were to ignore and disregard your rights.
    Firstly, I am very appreciative of the advice given here - and yes I probably will seek professional advice and get this sorted out properly second time round.

    Regarding 'rights', I have a very simple, apparently naive, moral code. If someone asks you for a favour and you grant it at your own cost then it is fair to expect them not to throw it back in your face. It is called trust

    Leave a comment:


  • Snorkerz
    replied
    Please don't be agrieved because your tenant is requiring you to respect her legal rights.

    I am sure that you would feel agrieved if someone were to ignore and disregard your rights.

    Now you have been given the information you need to get this right at the 2nd attempt. If you feel your self-acknowledged lack of knowledge will make this different, then there are companies out there that can do it for you (there will be ads on this page).

    Once you have looked at their 'fees' page you may realise that the information offered on here is superb value for money.

    Leave a comment:


  • theartfullodger
    replied
    iquit/csl: welcome to LLZ!!

    Letting property is a business: With an asset usually £100k+, and potential liabilities in the £20k+ range. If the business owner can't be bothered to understand the legalities of what they are getting involved with, so be it, but surely anyone with half-a-brain would realise the risks they were running. I started with little or no knowledge, got in even more of a mess than you seem to have, but as I recall (but hopefully someone else will find evidence otherwise..) didn't whinge on about the hole I'd dug for myself.

    It seems that the extremely well informed and expert westminster as merely described reality, one you created, not westminster.

    I seem to remember from my days of youth: If you find yourself in a hole, stop digging..

    Cheers!!

    PS Most years I make money from lettings, but not always... I only have half-a-brain left due to old age & alcohol.

    Leave a comment:


  • iquit
    replied
    Originally posted by westminster View Post
    I fail to see how the T has 'stitched you up'.
    We went out of our way to give the tenant the extra 6 weeks she asked for, didn't raise the rent for 2 years despite it being below market to start with and dealt with her fairly and promptly for 2 years.

    We only ended up renting out the house as it didn't sell, so forgive my lack of knowledge on the minutiae of what is required to get someone out of a house.

    Whilst you are completely correct in a legal sense, I still think we have every right to be aggrieved with the tenant.

    So was your response intended to be of any help or merely to point out your superior knowledge of residential letting legalities?

    Leave a comment:


  • westminster
    replied
    Originally posted by iquit View Post
    Having decided to sell up we gave our tenant the statutory 2 months notice (2 months ago) before the rent was due and were expecting her to be gone. However, there is no sign of this happening - rent has gone into the bank and she isn't responding to texts and phone calls.

    I'd like to think it would be a clear cut case of moving on to the next stage but have one major concern. I put the notice of termination through the door myself - I'm thinking she could just deny receiving.

    The other factor that may have a bearing is the nature of the tenancy. The tenant signed an AST when she moved in around 2 yrs ago, but nothing since. If we have to give notice again from scratch how does this need to be done.

    The annoying thing about this is we gave the tenant an extra month on top of the statutory and she has now stitched us up.
    When the fixed term tenancy expired, a statutory periodic tenancy arose under s.5 Housing Act 1988, replacing the fixed term tenancy. In other words, the tenancy effectively continued, but on a monthly 'rolling contract' basis.

    I fail to see how the T has 'stitched you up'. A s.21 notice is not a notice to quit, does not end the tenancy nor oblige the T to vacate; it merely entitles you to apply to the court for possession after notice expiry. Moreover, the T has continued to pay the rent due. Until you obtain a court order and get a bailiff to enforce it, the tenancy continues with the T fully entitled to remain in occupation.

    You've stitched yourself up; by failing to serve valid notice, by failing to obtain evidence of service, by failing to obtain evidence of having given T the prescribed information (if indeed you did this originally; the information is given by the LL direct to the T, so I wonder why you'd think the scheme might have a record of this). In addition, you could have served a s.13 notice to increase the rent after the tenancy became periodic, but you didn't.

    Leave a comment:


  • MSaxp
    replied
    The date has nothing to do with when the rent is paid. It might coincide with the tenancy periods or not. The tenancy periods start on the date following the end of the fixed term and follow the frequency of rent (i.e. monthly).

    You can allow as many days as you want after the end of the notice. The notice entitles you to apply to courts anytime after its expiry,it doesnt mean the tenants have to leave on that date. They might even serve notice and leave with 1 months notice. What the S21 does, is that it allows you to apply to courts no earlier than its expiry but anytime afterwards.

    As far as proof is concerned, you can have proof of postage, a witness, photo evidence (maybe), or acknowledgement from the tenant

    Leave a comment:


  • Snorkerz
    replied
    If you have not provided the prescribed information within 30 days of the start of the tenancy or 5th May 2012 (whichever is later) then you
    a) Are exposed to a definate penalty if the tenant were to make a civil claim against you; and
    b) Are unable to serve a valid section 21 notice.

    There is no way around (a) but it is unlikley to happen.

    For (b) serve the documents required by the scheme before you serve your section 21. If you used the DPS then there are 2 sets of documents
    1) Prescribed information using this template.
    2) Terms and Conditions provided here

    You have to provide 2 copies of (1) so that the tenant has the option of signing one and returning it to you (but they don't have to!). That would be good proof of service, but if you think the tenant will not co-operate then I would be happy with posting it 1st class and getting a free certificate of posting from the local PO.

    Leave a comment:


  • thesaint
    replied
    Sorry to jump in on Snorkerz.
    Provide the prescribed information again(if you are uncertain, then we can provide a link). Send it by 1st class post from a Post Office, and get a certificate of posting.

    Get it done this week, and only then should you send the Sec 21.
    As long as you post the Sec 21 on or before the 19th July, you can use the dates I gave you above.

    Send the Sec 21 from two post offices, and get a certificate of posting each time.

    Also, deliver everything by hand with a witness.

    I would also raise the rent using a Sec 13 rent increse form(If the tenancy agreement doesn't have a rent increase provision).

    Leave a comment:


  • mind the gap
    replied
    Originally posted by iquit View Post
    I did read about it being the date before the rent day and this is what I intended to put.
    Be aware that 'rent day' is not always the same as the last day of a tenancy period.

    Leave a comment:


  • iquit
    replied
    Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
    However, before you do anything (there is no hurry on the s21) can you please confirm
    1) if a deposit was paid by the tenant
    2) if & when you protected it in a government approved scheme
    3) if and when you provided them with the schemes t&cs and details of how they recover their deposit (called prescribed information) - and can you prove that?
    1 and 2, yes. 3 I would certainly struggle to prove it unless the system it is on has a record of this.
    What are the implications / solutions if this is the case?

    Leave a comment:


  • iquit
    replied
    Originally posted by thesaint View Post
    Your notice is invalid.

    You need to serve it again, and it needs to expire "After" the 24th September 2012
    I did read about it being the date before the rent day and this is what I intended to put. However, my wife had agreed a few extra days with the tenant so she insisted on putting that date. I did tell her at the time to put the 24th and tell her verbally that any extension was discretionary.

    Oh well, lesson learnt. Thanks for the help.

    Leave a comment:


  • Snorkerz
    replied
    It would certainly seem not to be valid.

    If the tenancy began on 25th October 2010 and had no specified end date, then no matter how many months it was for, it would have ended on the 24th of XX 2011. Therefore each tenancy period after that would run from the 25th of the month to the 24th of the following month. Section 21(4)(a) requires your notice to expire 'after the last day of a tenancy period' therefore the wording on your notice should have been "I give you notice that I require possession of the abovenamed house after 24th June 2012"

    So, you can either serve new notice before 24th July to expire after 24th September 2012 (I would use this template) http://www.letlink.co.uk/GeneralInfo...on/S21_4_A.pdf

    and/or negotiate, it is suprising what the offer of a few hundred pounds can achieve so long as you remember that you can not make the tenant accept, so you have to make it good enough that they want to accept.

    However, before you do anything (there is no hurry on the s21) can you please confirm
    1) if a deposit was paid by the tenant
    2) if & when you protected it in a government approved scheme
    3) if and when you provided them with the schemes t&cs and details of how they recover their deposit (called prescribed information) - and can you prove that?

    Leave a comment:


  • thesaint
    replied
    Your notice is invalid.

    You need to serve it again, and it needs to expire "After" the 24th September 2012

    Use this template:

    http://www.letlink.co.uk/GeneralInfo...on/S21_4_A.pdf

    Leave a comment:


  • MSaxp
    replied
    Whether its valid or not, depends on the following:

    1) when did the fixed term end? if it ended on the 24th of a month (i.e. 24th of october 2011), then your notice is invalid as it needs to be for after the last day of a period.

    2)Have you protected the deposit in an approved scheme and given the prescribed info to the tenant? (that is 20 odd pages). if you havent, then your S21 is invalid as well.

    Not sure how you also said earlier that you gave a month over what the law would require while your notice is for 2 months.

    Leave a comment:


  • iquit
    replied
    OK, so the tenant has said they received the notice, but have been advised by shelter that it is not enforceable. Below is a copy of the notice sent. Any comments would be gladly received.

    Note: the rent is paid on the 25th of the month.



    What's more annoying is we let her have the place cheap from the start and didn't put the rent up

    Leave a comment:

Latest Activity

Collapse

  • Reply to Economy 7 and a smart meter
    by NaomiB
    The tank we put in was super insulated, probably cost about £200 or more. I don't think it would heat the space around it.

    As a child I remember the galvanised hot water tank that was in the airing cupboard in the bathroom. Made it lovely and warm. Occasionally, it sprung a leak and...
    27-11-2021, 19:49 PM
  • Economy 7 and a smart meter
    by NaomiB
    I bought my tenant three new night storage heaters at the beginning of last year to replace the old ones.

    I have just taken back management of this flat and a couple of weeks ago she emailed me about them. I told her that this particular meter had the economy 7 coming on at 8am in the...
    23-11-2021, 21:24 PM
  • Reply to Economy 7 and a smart meter
    by JK0
    Seriously?

    Go and sit in your airing cupboard, and see if it's any warmer than outside....
    27-11-2021, 17:42 PM
  • Reply to Economy 7 and a smart meter
    by Jon66
    Just an aside, if you tenant is in full time education she is probably not entitled to welfare benefits unless she has a disability. If she is in receipt of a student loan and is struggling, she should ask her college hardship fund for help. They are very good at assisting lone parents to ensure they...
    27-11-2021, 17:41 PM
  • Reply to Cant accept visitors with pets
    by Section20z
    Landlord is the relevant party and presumably knows his lease so as long as she has his consent there's no problem and it certainly won't affect any reference
    Just because 3 old biddies are worried about their cats doesn't mean they can dictate rules...
    27-11-2021, 17:31 PM
  • Cant accept visitors with pets
    by Katarzyna1984
    Hello everyone,

    I am new here and I hope someone will be able to answer my question and help me out. My sister lives in rented property (flat) and she asked her landlord for a permission to accommodate my other sister with two dog for Christmas period. Landlord said he is ok with it but...
    26-11-2021, 19:26 PM
  • Reply to Economy 7 and a smart meter
    by Section20z
    Water in the immersion tank will supplement the space heating ?
    How does that work then ?...
    27-11-2021, 17:25 PM
  • Reply to Freezing cold, outdated heating and draughty insulation
    by Canning18
    Heaters seem to have sorted themselves out by now. Insulation is the much bigger issue though.

    I've noticed a 1 by 4cm cutout in the drywall under the windowsill that lets in so much air it makes the curtains move by themselves.

    Similarly, there is a nearly 1 cm gap between...
    27-11-2021, 17:18 PM
  • Freezing cold, outdated heating and draughty insulation
    by Canning18
    Hi folks,

    I’ve been renting a flat through a housing association for a few years now but find my flat to be insanely freezing during the winter (it never bothered me too much before Covid as I was away with work a lot). Last year was the first year I was around all winter and I’ve ended...
    26-11-2021, 10:44 AM
  • Reply to Economy 7 and a smart meter
    by NaomiB
    Update. Got this reply "All the advice you have given is very much appreciated but they are things that i have already done at one point or another over the past 7 years. The new heaters are set to that youtube video anyway and i have sent them all to the electrician and he says they are correct....
    27-11-2021, 17:09 PM
Working...
X