Does deposit require protecting under Periodic contract?

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  • westminster
    replied
    Originally posted by suzwar View Post


    You still owe £150 rent for June. As it is now nearly 29th June and the rent very overdue,...
    So, she now owes £150 for the period 28th May - 27th June. Assuming no payment yesterday, she owes a further £700 for the period 28th June - 27th July.

    If there is at least £1,400 owing as at 29th July, you can also serve a s.8 notice on that date, citing grounds 8, 10 & 11. The length of the notice would be 14 days, so you could apply for possession on day 15.

    I say this partly because you have now missed the deadline for the s.21 notice to expire "after 27th August 2012". So the notice you eventually serve will have to expire a month later "after 27th September 2012".

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  • westminster
    replied
    Originally posted by suzwar View Post
    That sounds great in theory, but what if she doesn't accept it? I suspect she will start spouting this again to me:

    "The statute includes ALL monies paid in Advance, including Rent, which all has to be paid into the *Scheme* if you take it,as Its all monies that are Returnable to the Tenant at the end of the Tenancy!"

    That is wrong isn't it?
    I've already told you she's wrong. Don't listen to her nonsense. Listen to us.

    I know I am going to run in to trouble just trying to give this money to her! it is ridiculous. If in the event she won't sign, and in fact refuses to accept it, I know it sounds far fetched but could I be filmed counting the money putting it in to the envelope with the letter and then posting it through the letterbox with a witness?!

    What other option do I have..
    I would not expect a signature/receipt from the tenant in the circumstances. As thesaint says, take a witness and a camcorder. Ideally, the witness would be a solicitor, accountant or similar, as opposed to your mum - but it's not essential. Make sure you film the sign showing the street name, and the door number, so that it's clear where you are delivering the cash and the accompanying letter stating that the money is a refund of her deposit in full. Keep a copy of the letter, obviously.

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  • thesaint
    replied
    Originally posted by suzwar View Post
    That sounds great in theory, but what if she doesn't accept it? I suspect she will start spouting this again to me:

    You go there just like you have been doing, and put the money on her table with a letter.
    Explain how she would not "accept" the money.

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  • suzwar
    replied
    That sounds great in theory, but what if she doesn't accept it? I suspect she will start spouting this again to me:

    "The statute includes ALL monies paid in Advance, including Rent, which all has to be paid into the *Scheme* if you take it,as Its all monies that are Returnable to the Tenant at the end of the Tenancy!"

    That is wrong isn't it? she paid one months rent in advance and £300 deposit - should have been £700. so £1000 in total at the start of hte tenancy. I owe her £300.


    I know I am going to run in to trouble just trying to give this money to her! it is ridiculous. If in the event she won't sign, and in fact refuses to accept it, I know it sounds far fetched but could I be filmed counting the money putting it in to the envelope with the letter and then posting it through the letterbox with a witness?!

    What other option do I have..

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  • thesaint
    replied
    Forget e-mails, write letters.

    I would write a letter stating that you are returning her deposit to her in cash(if you send a cheque, what happens if she doesn't cash it?). Make it clear that any money you accept from her going forwards is towards her rent arrears.

    Take along a witness to oversee/film you counting out the cash to her and leave it, and the letter with her.
    Follow it up with a letter explaining what you did, and why you did it.

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  • suzwar
    replied
    ANother update!

    I am at the end of my tether, and just don't know what to do next. My tenant seriously believes her claims re the deposit despite what it says in the agreement. She still owes 150 rent for June, so I emailed her yesterday something along these lines:

    I have sought advice re your deposit, and am certain that the total deposit we owe you is £300 as per the agreement - (had you paid the full £700 deposit, a total of £700 would have been registered under the scheme). Also to clarify, your rent is payable a month in advance which is standard practice and is all in accordance with your tenancy agreement.

    As explained on Friday, I would like to return your deposit of £300 in full.

    You still owe £150 rent for June. As it is now nearly 29th June and the rent very overdue, I propose that I should return the full deposit to you in the first instance (you will need to sign acceptance of it), and in turn you can pay me the outstanding rent. Does this sound acceptable to you?


    Pretty straightforward and to the point I think and seeking her agreement.

    The tenant however has replied! - I am not comfortable posting the email content on here and it is rather lengthy and convoluted. Would it be possible to private email a senior member or two for your opinions of it and what to do next?

    If she continues to disagree with me and I know I am right, what do I do next? I have to get this all square before issuing a S21. Should I register albeit very late the £300 in a scheme? or if she won't accept the cash back, should I send a cheque?

    Would a solicitor be able to help with this? I had thought that once the deposit issue was resolved I might seek professional help with the S21 etc..

    I really need some guidance.

    Thanks in advance

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  • westminster
    replied
    Originally posted by suzwar View Post
    I just remembered something else she told me -her contract is Periodic now, and she claims that she cannot have another Fixed term contract from a Periodic one? That can't be right surely?
    She is wrong. You are free to agree a new fixed term contract. It would automatically replace the periodic tenancy. In the circumstances, it would obviously be a bad idea to grant a new fixed term contract.

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  • suzwar
    replied
    You have so totally summed up what we did! We bypassed everything and were led by trust. There was so much about this lady we didn't know that we should have known....She is in fact living in our old family home. We bought a new house and let out the old one. We were going to go through an agent, but this lady came via friend and was in urgent need of new accommodation. We rushed everything to do with the tenancy as we were too preoccupied in moving to the new house.

    I don't have her account details - I guess I'll have another go at giving her the cash and getting her to sign the receipt.

    I just remembered something else she told me -her contract is Periodic now, and she claims that she cannot have another Fixed term contract from a Periodic one? That can't be right surely?

    Leave a comment:


  • westminster
    replied
    Letting to family and friends often ends up like this. People end up bypassing the usual reference checks and insistence on rent/deposit up front, then find themselves in a situation like this.

    You don't need to prove it or explain it to her, just do try to get a receipt out of her for the £300 deposit refund. Failing that, transfer the money to her account if you have her bank details. Failing that, get a witness such as your husband's very good friend to go round there with you and witness you giving her the cash.

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  • the-smiths
    replied
    I find a good way of explaining about paying rent in advance is that you go to a bar (or say McD's) order your goods - but you need to pay before you get them and consume them - same with renting the house.

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  • suzwar
    replied
    Thank you,you have confirmed that I owe her £300. The tricky part will be explaining/prooving that to her as she will argue blue is black!!! She has a knack of making me doubt myself and what I am saying!

    The tenant came through a very good friend of my husband's so we naively thought that she would be okay. But to be honest I am totally stressed about the whole thing because of a number of 'issues' with her.

    I have simply had enough, but it is an uphill struggle with her because nothing is straightforwar, there is always an issue.

    Thanks!

    Leave a comment:


  • westminster
    replied
    If, as at 28th November 2011, she had paid you £1,000 (£300 deposit and £700 rent in advance for the period 28th November - 27th December 2011) then the deposit is £300, and no more.

    It is perfectly alright to make rent payable a month in advance. E.g. rent due on 1st Jan for the period 1st-31st Jan.

    (Just for future reference, don't grant a tenancy to a tenant who fails to pay the full rent and deposit up front).

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  • suzwar
    replied
    UPDATE and further advice needed!

    My meeting with the tenant did not quite to go plan - she is a 'tricky' customer and claims toknow a thing or two about tenancy saying she has rented herself in the past.

    When I brought up the subject of returning the deposit to her on the basis that she had not paid it in full and I was too late for the dp scheme (she is more than aware about this and (gulP) the 3 x penalty!) so I wanted to be all square with her in this matter, I could see her hesitate in signing and therefore taking the money back (£300). She said that she believed that because she paid a month in advance that this too should have been registered with the scheme in addition to the 'deposit'.

    I did not want to argue with her, so just said I would check it out hoping that she was wrong. In effect she is saying we would owe her £700 month + £300 deposit she had paid. When I said I needed to check this, she wrote on a piece of paper:

    "Rent in Advance + Deposit should ALL go in to scheme or no deposit or scheme".

    She warmed to this idea, and then seemed to be claiming that the first months rent she paid usat the beginning of the tenancy would have gone in to the scheme as well as the £300 deposit,and she implied that in fact we was not paying not a month in advance but at the end of the month.!! I hope I have explained that clearly!?

    My Contract dated 28th November 2011 with her states:


    "Payment is to be by standing order in advance by equal monthly payments on the 28th of each month, the first payment of which is to be made on the signing of this agreement"

    Then with regards the deposit, is says:

    "The landlord hereby acknowleges receipt of £300 by way of deposit."

    Please tell me that I only owe her £300!! and that it is okay she is paying at the beginning of the month and not the end - is this standard practice?

    Thanks!

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  • suzwar
    replied
    That's fantastic - will follow all advice received to the t!

    Thank you so much!

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  • thesaint
    replied
    Originally posted by suzwar View Post
    It says it can by served by post or in person - so I shall do as you suggest and serve by bothmethods to cover all bases!
    Yes serve it by hand tomorrow(not tonight), and post it using Royal Mail as detailed above.
    I would send two by post. It is overkill, but could save you hundreds of pounds in the long run.

    Originally posted by suzwar View Post


    I have a meeting with her tonight so will return the deposit then. Just trying to draft a letter for returning the deposit- any suggested wording? I know it should be simple but just paranoid about getting this wrong.

    The letter is just something basic along these lines.

    I "Mrs landlord" am returning in cash the amount of £**.** today the 22nd June 2012 that was paid as a deposit on the **/**/2011. for the tenancy at "** Any Street, Anytown".
    This is the full amount of the deposit paid to me.

    The balance of the deposit was never paid by "Mrs tenant".

    Mrs tenant acknowledges receipt of this money


    Signed Mrs Tenant

    Signed Mrs Landlord

    Leave a comment:

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