possession order on ground 14 - Help?!!

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    possession order on ground 14 - Help?!!

    I am a new private landlord/lady, and have run head first into my nightmare situation, I will keep it brief cos i'm tired but have been searching the forum for the info I need and am struggling!!

    Basically my tenant moved in on 13th April, paid bond & 1 month up front, first months rent I got nothing, then part payment 2 weeks later, another part week after that, then nothing. I went to speak to him about it, they didn't want to let me in and there was a strong smell of cannabis, I waited again for more money, meanwhile hearing stories from neighbours about lots of people coming in and out of the house (Which I previously lived in for 7 years, only moving due to having a baby so bigger home required) so when he failed to meet yet another promise of money I phoned the police help line & they told me I was ok to go into the property to check out my concerns. So I Did!!!! Only to discover that they are growing cannabis in the cellar!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I took photos and called the police, they were both arrested but let out without charge, and back home to MY house. I was also arrested for alleged assault!! Also without charge!!!! I am now in a position where the tenant is refusing to pay, leave or cooperate in any way. I have just completed a S8 on grounds 10,11,13,14,15 & 17!!! But can't do G8 as he paid part payment. Is this correct so far? My next question is - can I now move straight to court? I am serving the notice by hand in the morning with a witness. I looked on the PCOL website to apply online but they only allow that for unpaid rent only, I intend to rely mostly on Ground 14. What is my next move & how? Please Help x

    #2
    They do not have at least 2 months rent unpaid, so it will be at least the 13th July where that may give you a mandatory ground.

    How did you get from smelling cannabis to thinking that it was being grown?
    Allow tenants to protect their own deposits. I want free money when they do it wrong

    Comment


      #3
      Why were you arrested for assault?? On whom??

      Do you have crime reference numbers or anything in else in writing/email from the Police regarding the cannabis / arrests of tenants??

      Think I'd issue S8 notice on grounds 10,11 & 14 and hope that when this gets to court tenant does not turn up or the judge is sympathetic to your position. Failing that S8 Grnd 8 when 2 months owing (not 2 months in arrears.. there's a difference...) and S21 as and when.

      Persons who behave like this are unlikely to leave a property just because you (or a judge..) asks them to...

      What references did you take up (landlord, previous landlord, personal, employment)?? What did the credit checks show?? Do you have copies of driving licence/passport/payslips?? If not all of these, next time do so...


      Did you give notice to the tenants you were going in and/or did they refuse/agree?? Did you have a witness?? If not you might expect (and anyway expect) an harassment/illegal eviction case see..
      “Protection from Eviction Act 1977”
      Section 1
      Unlawful eviction and harassment
      s.1(3A) (as was amended by the Housing Act 1988) which states:
      "the landlord of a residential occupier or an agent of the landlord shall be guilty of an offence if he does acts likely to interfere with the peace or comfort of the residential occupier or members of his household."
      The sticky at the top of this section is a useful guide to the landlord basically having limited rights, without a court order, to enter a tenant's home (tenant's property, only landlord's investment) without permission...

      Many here have had unfortunate experiences of being a landlord: You have my sympathy.
      I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by thesaint View Post
        They do not have at least 2 months rent unpaid, so it will be at least the 13th July where that may give you a mandatory ground.

        I understand this but was hoping to rely on ground 14

        How did you get from smelling cannabis to thinking that it was being grown?
        The smell was too strong to just be smoking and also when i spoke to him regarding lack of rent he was obviously under the influence of something stronger and didn't want to let me in (holding door close, not the actions of someone who has nothing to hide!!) I didn't know he was growing till i went in.

        Comment


          #5
          The forms you require are form n5 & n119, available here: http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.u.../FormFinder.do
          The fee is £175.

          The 'expiry date' on an s8 is expressed as "proceeding will not begin until after" so if served today, and you put today as the expiry date, you still couldn't commence your claim until tommorrow even though no notice is required under ground 14. While you have my sympathies, I can not see how ground 14 applies - can you clarify?

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by theartfullodger View Post
            Why were you arrested for assault?? On whom?? .
            His girlfriend accused me of assaulting her.

            Originally posted by theartfullodger View Post
            Do you have crime reference numbers or anything in else in writing/email from the Police regarding the cannabis / arrests of tenants?? .
            I don't but surely they can give me them? She says hopefully!!!

            Originally posted by theartfullodger View Post
            Think I'd issue S8 notice on grounds 10,11 & 14 and hope that when this gets to court tenant does not turn up or the judge is sympathetic to your position. Failing that S8 Grnd 8 when 2 months owing (not 2 months in arrears.. there's a difference...) and S21 as and when
            Can I start proceedings with s8 on grounds 10,11 & 14, without having to wait the 14 days to apply for court? Also could I start this and then re issue another on g8 when it becomes due? What is the difference between 2 months owing & 2 months in arrears?

            Originally posted by theartfullodger View Post
            Persons who behave like this are unlikely to leave a property just because you (or a judge..) asks them to...
            I know he's already text me to say as much - adding to my fury & worry for my property!!

            What references did you take up (landlord, previous landlord, personal, employment)?? What did the credit checks show?? Do you have copies of driving licence/passport/payslips?? If not all of these, next time do so...


            Originally posted by theartfullodger View Post
            Did you give notice to the tenants you were going in and/or did they refuse/agree?? Did you have a witness?? If not you might expect (and anyway expect) an harassment/illegal eviction case see.....
            No i didn't get permission but i did have a witness


            Originally posted by theartfullodger View Post
            The sticky at the top of this section is a useful guide to the landlord basically having limited rights, without a court order, to enter a tenant's home (tenant's property, only landlord's investment) without permission...


            Many here have had unfortunate experiences of being a landlord: You have my sympathy.


            Thanks so much x

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
              The forms you require are form n5 & n119, available here: http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.u.../FormFinder.do
              The fee is £175.

              The 'expiry date' on an s8 is expressed as "proceeding will not begin until after" so if served today, and you put today as the expiry date, you still couldn't commence your claim until tommorrow even though no notice is required under ground 14. While you have my sympathies, I can not see how ground 14 applies - can you clarify?
              I am thinking that 14a has been guilty of conduct likely to cause a nuisance?

              Comment


                #8
                If you are using discretionary grounds from S.8 then you will need good evidence (not hearsay) as judges are extremely reluctant to grant possession on a first application. Make sure you able to show all contact with plod and also see if you can get any information as to why they did not press charges.

                2 months rent upaid is the time the second months non-payment of rent is due, whereas 2 months arrears is not until the end of the second month.
                The advice I give should not be construed as a definitive answer, and is without prejudice or liability. You are advised to consult a specialist solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Paul_f View Post
                  If you are using discretionary grounds from S.8 then you will need good evidence (not hearsay) as judges are extremely reluctant to grant possession on a first application. Make sure you able to show all contact with plod and also see if you can get any information as to why they did not press charges.

                  2 months rent upaid is the time the second months non-payment of rent is due, whereas 2 months arrears is not until the end of the second month.
                  I have photo's of the cannabis, dog feaces & urination all over carpet, cellar carpeted steps soaked wet through from the cannabis being dried out and all the damp & mould it has created. They are smoking in there, have pets - all go against the tenancy agreement. Plus the non payment of rent - they have paid £300 out of the £900 due for the past 2 months. so that rules out ground 8, I was hoping to rely on ground 14 but don't think he has been convicted, just cautioned which is pure madness in my opinion!!
                  Surely I have some grounds for eviction here?
                  After speaking to police today i have to apply in writing for details of the case and that could take months?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Losingmyhead View Post
                    meanwhile hearing stories from neighbours about lots of people coming in and out of the house
                    Although it may be a bit annoying, it isn't much of a ground 14!

                    they told me I was ok to go into the property to check out my concerns.
                    They were wrong!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      The ground 14 I was hoping to use was not the hear say coming & going, it is the fact that he is growing Illegal Drugs on my premises!! Can you not see why I am desperatly trying to find a way to get this guy out of my house? I am looking for a little positive advice for best way to serve a section 8 please? There is dog feaces & urine all over my living room carpet, the cellar steps carpet is drenched and mould growing up the walls of a previously dry cellar. All in all my house is already wrecked after 2 months and no rent either, so I surely have some right to apply to get him out?!!!!

                      As a new landlord I am finding this whole thing a minefield to understand and am worried to serve the s8 incase it is incorrect.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        You can serve a S.8 Notice by hand, downloadable free from this site. Is that the advice you are looking for? But don't just expect the judge to grant you possession, and it will take you a few weeks before it gets to court.
                        The advice I give should not be construed as a definitive answer, and is without prejudice or liability. You are advised to consult a specialist solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Not really, was looking more for help with the content of the S8 & grounds to use for it obviously!!! But hey thanks for your advice, would never have thought to serve it by hand, you've been tremendously helpful!!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            sadly it will not be easy to remove this tenant. You can bet your life that he will contest the S8 and turn up with a sob story at court plus full details of the assault - you will be the LL from Hell within minutes!
                            If he is owing more than 2 month's rent you must use that ground as well - much more chance of success than just his behaviour however terrible that may be.
                            Serve the notice - you must get a witness to it being delivered who will write a statement to that effect. Otherwise the tenant will say he did not get it. For a belt and braces approach deliver by hand with a witness and also post from 2 different post offices with Certificate of Postage (free of charge).
                            Good luck!
                            Unshackled by the chains of idle vanity, A modest manatee, that's me

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Thank you islandgirl,
                              He is not quite owing 2 months rent so I cannot use that ground just yet, so I am wondering, should I serve the S8 on other grounds and can I add to it or serve another when he is owing 2 months? Should I also serve the section 21 at the same time just to be on the safe side? What would be your opinion?
                              I have been scared off doing the S8 myself as told if the wording is even slighly off then it could be useless? But if I copy & paste this from the internet housing act then surely this will be ok do you think? Do I have anything to lose by just going for it? Otherwise I have to wait till 13th July before the next months payment is due.

                              Thanks for taking the time to respond

                              Comment

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