HB tenant

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    HB tenant

    Hi,

    I have had a tenant in my property for 4 years and 2 months ago we served her a S21 notice for possession of the property on 7th June. She is on HB and informed us that she was intending to leave the UK and wanted to stay in the property until August in order to get her affairs sorted. I understand that we can let the AST run through to a periodic tenancy and that the S21 is still valid so we do not have to serve her a new one. The property is fully managed by a letting agent.
    I have 2 questions:
    1) We have a difficult relationship with our letting agent and do not wish to go through them for the remaining 2 months. Can we by pass them meaning, do we need to let them know that we have agreed with the tenant that she can stay on for two months? The tenant said she is happy to pay us her rent directly.

    2) We want solid assurance from the tenant that she will leave the property n August – is there any point in getting her sign some sort of declaration?

    Many thanks

    #2
    1) Interesting sentence, given the LA works for you! You dont have to let the agents know anything about the non-renewal as you are not changing anything. The tenant has a tenancy and will continue to be a tenant with an SPT. All this is assuming the fixed term of the last renewal will have ended by the 7th of august and that the tenancy period is 8th to 7th of the month.

    As far as sacking the agents, yes you do have to tell them. The details of how you can terminate the agrement you have with the LA will be in that agreement that you signed with them. Best case scenario, they would ask for a few months notice, worst case that they want compensation if you keep their tenant. The last sentence being guesswork but difficult to terminate at such short notice. I would say its not worth having this argument with the LA for 2 months worth of commission and if you dont want them, sack them when the tenancy comes to an end, where compensation will probably not be payable.

    2) You can ask the tenant to give you notice for the 7th of august. Obviously that will not assure you that they will physically move but will help in the event you have to go to court.
    All views posted reflect my personal opinion only and do not constitute professional advice which I am not qualified or knowledgeable enough to provide.

    Comment


      #3
      Thanks for the reply. The issue has been that when we originally wanted the S21 notice served, we instructed the LA to do this and at the same time said that we would be moving LA as we had not been happy with the standard of management that they have given us. The LA then basically spat his dummy out and said that if that was how we felt, he would not serve the S21 notice or deal with the check out so we had to do this ourselves. So basically we have already given the LA notice and he has not been involved with any aspect of the check out as I have been dealing with it all. I am loathed to pay him any money should we agree that the tenant can stay on for a further 2 months.

      Comment


        #4
        if you were to pay any money that would only be the managing monthly commission and not anything to do with renewal.

        Sounds like your LA threw a strop. Never heard of that before. Saying they will not serve your notices or do the checkout process, means they are effectively terminating your agreement. Difficult to argue later that you should have carried on paying them the management fees while they refused to perform their duties. I assume you have this in writing. Obviously I cant know exactly what was said between you 2 and they might challenge that later and ask for some form of compensation if they feel you didnt terminate the agreement in an appropriate manner.

        The T has nothing to do with this. He can pay you directly if you wish so. The agents have an agreement with you, not the tenant.
        All views posted reflect my personal opinion only and do not constitute professional advice which I am not qualified or knowledgeable enough to provide.

        Comment


          #5
          Yes I have that in writing as per below but with names taken out:


          Because of your decision to remove the management from us I feel that as LA XX were paid for the renewal and the original Tenancy it is only appropriate that they deal with the termination of the Agreement especially as you do not feel we are good enough to continue as your Estate Agent I am presuming that we are also not good enough to deal with the termination. All future payments will be paid over as normal until the end of the Tenancy.

          Naturally the old LA who had originally found the tenant wanted nothing to do with it, as I would have expected as so we have had to deal with the notices and so on.

          Comment


            #6
            Hmm quite complex. I am not an expert so this is just my opinion. In most cases I have experienced, the checkout process is handled by the agent who started the tenancy and quite often he has already been paid for that. Not sure what the agreements with your agents say about this. Have you already paid for it in the form of checkin/checkout fee, is it part of the management obligations you pay the monthly fee for, or would it be paid for separately at the end?

            If it was a separate fee, then I suppose you are saving that fee by doing it yourself but still have to pay them their monthly fees. If it comes at no extra cost to you and it is included in the management of the property, then i dont see how they can ask you to pay your monthly fees without agreeing to perform their duties. Have a look at the agreement you have with them.
            All views posted reflect my personal opinion only and do not constitute professional advice which I am not qualified or knowledgeable enough to provide.

            Comment


              #7
              yes it is a bit of a complicated one. But to be honest its not a huge issue, I can quite happily deal with the check out and have been prepared to do so for months so I'm not going to waste my energy on this issue. I just wanted to know if I needed to inform the current LA that I was letting the tenancy run on periodically as I'm prepared to handle the last two months of the tenancy myself.

              Comment


                #8
                again, one is unrelated to the other. You not wanting to renew, is none of the LA business.

                You wanting to stop paying them their monthly fees, is their busines and judging by the email you quoted, is likely to upset them. I doubt they can charge you compensation for keeping the tenant (given they didnt find the tenant) but they are likely to say you need to give them a few months notice. definitely not a week's notice, to terminate the agreement with them. Have a look in the agreement with the agents
                All views posted reflect my personal opinion only and do not constitute professional advice which I am not qualified or knowledgeable enough to provide.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Sorry I should have said that we told them we no longer wished to have them as our LA on 26th March which was at the same time we asked them to serve the tenant her S21 so they have had over 2 months notice from us.

                  Thank you for all your advice.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    If 2 months notice is what is specified in the terms you agreed with the LA, then, provided you gave them that notice in writing, you are free to tell the tenant to pay you directly
                    All views posted reflect my personal opinion only and do not constitute professional advice which I am not qualified or knowledgeable enough to provide.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      HB tenant

                      Okay a bit of a complicated one and also very long so I’ve bulleted it to make it easier to read:

                      • AST tenant has been in my property for 4 years – came with good ref and sourced by LA1 as a private tenant.
                      • 2 years ago, tenant went through break up with spouse and was left as a single mother, with 2 young children and not working. Started to receive HB. Had to move LA so moved to LA2.
                      • Allowed her to stay and lowered her rent so that she could afford it through the HB.
                      • Last year we agreed that this would be the final year and this June would see the end of the tenancy. She agreed and signed a S21 after signing her new AST.
                      • She was still having problems affording her rent payments so we allowed her to pay every 4 weeks rather than pcm, meaning that she pays us 13 payments instead of 12. This was to coincide with her HB payments.
                      • We wrote to her in March reminding her that the tenancy was due to end in June and gave her over 2 months further notice. At the same time we served notice on the LA2 as we were not at all happy with their service.
                      • LA2 threw a strop and refused to deal with anything to do with end of tenancy so we are having to deal with it on our own.
                      • Tenant came back to us saying that she was intending to leave the UK but needed to extend the tenancy until October to sort out her paperwork.
                      • We refused as property is in dire need of redec and works in advance of a future tenancy. We have allowed her to rent £500 below the market value of the property and now it is no longer financially feasible to allow her to do this as this is a single property and the only source of income.
                      • We have looked into legal proceedings and have notified the tenant of our intention should she not leave.
                      • She rang me last week to say that she could possibly leave in August instead and thus would only need to stay until then and then she would definitely leave.

                      My questions are that if we let her stay it will be on a periodic basis but we have no assurance that she will leave:

                      1) If we start court proceedings and she ends up leaving as she said she would, we have lost money on court fees which will not be recoverable from her if she keeps to her word and leaves
                      2) What happens if the court finds her situation as one of hardship and permits her to stay – how likely is this to happen and for how long will they grant her leave to stay?
                      3) Do we let her stay and hope that she does go?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Has the requirements of the Sec 21 being served been met?

                        The only way she will definitely vacate the property is if you enforce a valid Sec 21.

                        Anything other than that is guessing that no one on here has any real idea about.
                        Allow tenants to protect their own deposits. I want free money when they do it wrong

                        Comment


                          #13
                          As long as the S21 is correct, it doesnt matter if you go to court in June or August just as long as it is after the expiry date of the S21. Promised or not is irrelevant.

                          Given she will not leave by the expiry of the S21, you can apply to court and ask for your legal costs. Whether you get it, is debatable but small claims court expenses are rather small anyway
                          All views posted reflect my personal opinion only and do not constitute professional advice which I am not qualified or knowledgeable enough to provide.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Hi Both,

                            yes the S21 has been served correctly.

                            Thanks

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by thesaint View Post
                              Has the requirements of the Sec 21 being served been met?

                              .........
                              Was a deposit taken??
                              Was it protected?? (if so when..)
                              Have the "prescribed info" been served on the tenant & can you prove it?? (Before S21 was served??)
                              Can you prove you served S21??

                              I fully appreciate you "correctly served S21".. but it ain't as simple as that./...

                              Cheers!
                              I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                              Comment

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