What constitutes end of tenancy after section 8 served?

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  • Interlaken
    replied
    Congratulations and well done! Let's hope you don't get caught like that again.

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  • elniinio
    replied
    Update:

    Finally got the bailiffs around yesterday to execute a warrant for possession, and I now have my house back!

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  • elniinio
    replied
    Court date was yesterday. T didn't show up and it was all over in less than 5 minutes. I got a 14 day possesion order and a money order for all the outstanding rent and costs.

    Thanks to everyone for their invaluable advice on this and other threads that helped me to get there.

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  • elniinio
    replied
    Update:

    I visited the property last Saturday, and confirmed that T has changed the locks to the front and back door, but not to the french patio doors, so I was able to gain access. The property has been completely stripped, and is cosmetically a real mess, but it's mostly cleanable. Carpets and some wooden floors will need replacing however.

    However, there was no post in the property. Neither of the posted notices, nor the hand delivered one were there, nor was any other post. Someone has entered the property since the notice was hand delivered and collected it (other post may be being redirected). Therefore, I decided to leave the property as I found it and will continue down the s8 route. I've still not heard anything from T. The notice expires next Wednesday and so I'll take the next steps next Thursday. Thanks again to all those who have provided comments and advice.

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  • elniinio
    replied
    Thanks again for the clarification, much appreciated.

    I've still heard nothing from T and so am visiting the property tomorrow to check out the situation for myself. I'm still inclined towards the legal s8 route and will take the advice on-board and not mention my suspicions about the property being empty. The rationale here is that I want to get the money order at the same time as possession, so I can then apply for attachment of earnings. If I get in the property and re-let, I'd have to use money claim and I don't have a current address for service of papers. I'll post an update with any progress. Thanks again for all the advice; I can't state enough how helpful this forum is!

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  • thesaint
    replied
    Originally posted by elniinio View Post
    It states that its 'no longer an AST', which I read to mean that the tenancy ends. If it's no longer an AST, what is it? Does T walking out (without notice or contact) have the effect that I can no longer use the housing act to regain possession? What if T turns up again in a weeks time? I'm sorry if I'm being too daft to understand this, but I'm just not reconciling the idea that T is still T until surrender or legal possession (hence all the advice here about NOT re-entering and changing locks etc..) with the idea that it's no longer an AST when T decides unilaterally to leave.
    Hence my advice earlier:


    Originally posted by thesaint View Post
    If you decide to follow the letter of the law, then do not mention that you think they have left, just carry on as if they were still there.
    You will be lighter in the wallet by £285.00, no rental income for four months, and should have your property back by October to start preparing it for your next tenant.

    If it were my property, I would forget about applying for a possession order, and get in the property immediately, change the locks, report the theft of the furniture, and get the property re-let asap.

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  • Lawcruncher
    replied
    Posts 8 and 9 do not contradict each other.

    A tenancy is an assured tenancy "if and so long as" various conditions are fulfilled, one of which is that the tenant occupies the property as his only or main home. If a tenant under an assured tenancy (which includes an assured shorthold tenancy) gives up occupation it ceases to be an assured tenancy, but not a tenancy. If he returns before the tenancy ends and it is again his only or main home it becomes an assured tenancy again.

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  • elniinio
    replied
    It states that its 'no longer an AST', which I read to mean that the tenancy ends. If it's no longer an AST, what is it? Does T walking out (without notice or contact) have the effect that I can no longer use the housing act to regain possession? What if T turns up again in a weeks time? I'm sorry if I'm being too daft to understand this, but I'm just not reconciling the idea that T is still T until surrender or legal possession (hence all the advice here about NOT re-entering and changing locks etc..) with the idea that it's no longer an AST when T decides unilaterally to leave.

    Leave a comment:


  • thesaint
    replied
    Originally posted by elniinio View Post
    Thanks again for the advice.

    It's post#8 and #9 that confuse me, as they seem to be contradicting each other. #8 is saying that if T just leaves, the tenancy ends and the act no longer applies, whereas lot's of other posts on the forum suggst that the T remains T until they give proper notice or the court awards possession.
    Post #8 does not state that the tenancy ends, it states that you can't use the 1988 housing Act to gain possession of your property.

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  • elniinio
    replied
    Thanks again for the advice.

    It's post#8 and #9 that confuse me, as they seem to be contradicting each other. #8 is saying that if T just leaves, the tenancy ends and the act no longer applies, whereas lot's of other posts on the forum suggst that the T remains T until they give proper notice or the court awards possession. For reference, I have included the wording of the abandonment clause from the AST below.

    5.6 Abandonment
    5.6.1 If it comes to the attention of the Landlord that the Premises have not been occupied by the Tenant for more than 21 days and the Tenant has not given the Landlord notice in accordance with clause 3.6.4 above, and if, following further investigation by the Landlord, the Landlord forms the belief, and has reasonable cause to believe, that the Tenant has ceased to reside at the Premises, the Landlord may treat the Premises as being abandoned by the Tenant and re-enter the Premises and thereby bring this agreement to an end. Such entry by the Landlord will not affect any right or rights the Landlord may have against the Tenant in respect of any subsisting breach by the Tenant of the Tenant's agreements and obligations under this agreement as at the date of the re-entry.

    Thanks

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  • Lawcruncher
    replied
    A section 8 notice does not end a tenancy. Where the tenancy is periodic the tenant can only end it by serving a notice to quit. If he leaves without notice the tenancy continues. The landlord may then terminate it by serving a notice to quit or by invoking any relevant provision in the tenancy agreement.

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  • Snorkerz
    replied
    The reason behind thesaints comment is that if none of the tenants are using the property as their principle home, it is no longer an AST. If it is no longer an AST, then none of the 1988 Housing Act applies - no section 8, no section 21.

    Take a look at your tenancy agreement and let us know what it says about you taking back possession if the property is abandoned (there may be a quicker 'legal' route)

    Leave a comment:


  • elniinio
    replied
    Thanks for the advice. I'm inclined to follow the legal route and let s8 run it's course because a) I'd like to get a money order (T has assets and is working AFAIK) and b) it seems much safer from what I've read on here.

    @thesaint - when you say 'don't mention that you think they've left' are you referring to the application to the court, or the hearing, or both? What's the reasoning behind this, am I not more likely to get possession sooner if they believe the property to be abandoned?

    Thanks again

    Leave a comment:


  • thesaint
    replied
    If you decide to follow the letter of the law, then do not mention that you think they have left, just carry on as if they were still there.
    You will be lighter in the wallet by £285.00, no rental income for four months, and should have your property back by October to start preparing it for your next tenant.

    If it were my property, I would forget about applying for a possession order, and get in the property immediately, change the locks, report the theft of the furniture, and get the property re-let asap.

    Leave a comment:


  • Interlaken
    replied
    Legally yes.

    Shame about your contents. I would keep an eye on the property daily for any action or anyone else trying to take up occupation.

    I personally might take other action not recommended by this site but only you can decide.

    Leave a comment:

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