12 month AST ending in a couple of months.. Tenancy renewal and Deposit implications?

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    12 month AST ending in a couple of months.. Tenancy renewal and Deposit implications?

    • Property in E&W
    • Rooms let individually
    • 12 month AST ending 20th July this year.


    Questions:

    1. If the tenant wants to stay on with a renewal 6 month agreement, is there anything I need to be aware? and how does compare vs a 12 month renewal AST?

    2. If a new AST is signed, do I have to re-protect his deposit again? ie. actually refund him his deposit, and then get him to transfer back to my account then protect again? Is this really necessary?

    3. If a new AST is signed, do I need to do a Check-out and Check-in on him?


    My understanding is that if I keep it 'rolling', I don't have to do any of the above..

    What are the pros/cons of renewing a new AST on an existing tenant? seems like potentially a lot of paperwork. Only benefit is if you are raising the rent & council tax/bills to keep up with inflation?

    Would like to hear what other LL's think.

    Thanks in advance!

    #2
    1) No significant difference other than the duration

    2) Reprotection not necessary with DPS, required with MyDeposits and (I think) TDS

    3) No, providing the tenant is the same person - but jes if a joint tenancy were to become a sole one.

    You can raise rent painlessly enough on a statutory periodic tenancy with a section 13 notice.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
      2) Reprotection not necessary with DPS, required with MyDeposits and (I think) TDS
      The DPS's terms and conditions are not quite well drafted, imo. Where is it mentioned that re-protection is not required?

      Thanks!

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by jjlandlord View Post
        The DPS's terms and conditions are not quite well drafted, imo. Where is it mentioned that re-protection is not required?

        Thanks!
        Haven't found it in the T&Cs (yet) but their FAQ page says:

        If a deposit is protected and the tenant extends their agreement, what action needs to be taken?

        A deposit will remain secured until a Joint Deposit Repayment claim is made by the agent/landlord and tenant(s). Therefore, there is no action required at the end of the initial tenancy period.

        Comment


          #5
          Thanks for the quick reply.

          Their T&C mentions the repayment procedure at the end of "the Tenancy", which I found prone to confusion...

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post

            You can raise rent painlessly enough on a statutory periodic tenancy with a section 13 notice.
            Can't I just email them there is a proposed rent increase with a 1-2 month notice its going to increase without all the paperwork?

            The deposit is protected with mydeposits. Don't see why the T needs to pay them another £30.. same room/property etc.. greedy b*stards! and saves me having to go online and register it all over again.

            Also do I need to refund T, and T transfers funds back to show funds have been received on X date, and I guess I have to send them the "information for tenants" PDF re deposit again? all very repetitive..

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by sparkie View Post
              Can't I just email them there is a proposed rent increase with a 1-2 month notice its going to increase without all the paperwork?
              You can, but as you say it'd just be a proposal: They can refuse/ignore it as they wish.

              Originally posted by sparkie View Post
              Don't see why the T needs to pay them another £30..
              T does not need to pay anything since deposit protection is the LL's responsibility.

              Originally posted by sparkie View Post
              Also do I need to refund T, and T transfers funds back to show funds have been received on X date, and I guess I have to send them the "information for tenants" PDF re deposit again? all very repetitive..
              If tenant and property do not change, and you need to re-protect the deposit, you can just re-protect it with the scheme without needing to refund.

              Comment


                #8
                Yes you can email them, and they can refuse. Section 13 is a simple form, there is really no reason not to comply with it. This may help: http://tenancyanswers.ucoz.com/index..._the_rent/0-41, note particually the reference to a 'rent control mechanism'.

                Your tenant doesn't need to pay a re-protection fee. You do though, because it is you who agreed to their terms and conditions. As you chose to use a paid-for service, it seems a little unfair if you pass the cost onto the tenant when free options are available.

                No need to refund etc, just re-protect. There is no clear need to re-supply the PI (although with deposit protection laws in flux, it may be best to err on the side of safety) but if you don't re-protect, you will be breaching the 2004 Act as amended.

                Lets look at the work involved:

                Edit existing AST on PC with new dates and print (2 minutes)
                Go online and reprotect with My Deposits (5 minutes)
                Reprint 'Info for Tenants' (1 minute)

                Total time? - less than I have spent writing this post

                Comment


                  #9
                  Thanks Snorkerz.

                  Let the tenancy go rolling. email T a rent increase is coming - 2 minutes

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by sparkie View Post
                    Thanks Snorkerz.

                    Let the tenancy go rolling. email T a rent increase is coming - 2 minutes
                    And if T says no?


                    OR fill in s13 form and post - 2 minutes and the chance of tenant declining are drastically reduced.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by sparkie View Post
                      What are the pros/cons of renewing a new AST on an existing tenant? seems like potentially a lot of paperwork.
                      You (and the tenant) also have the benefit of increased security of tenancy; which may be something either or both of you value. I certainly prefer to issue a new agreement if I have a good tenant in place; it means I'm not wondering every month whether I'm going to be given 1 months' notice of them leaving. I do leave it up to the tenant to decide whether they want a new agreement or prefer to go 'periodic'. Also, I'll maybe offer a 12-month agreement and even offer a small discount on the rent if they go for it. As has been said - the paperwork involved is trivial.

                      Originally posted by jjlandlord View Post
                      Their T&C mentions the repayment procedure at the end of "the Tenancy", which I found prone to confusion...
                      If you issue a new 6-month agreement to run back-to-back with the old one, then the tenancy didn't "end" after the original agreement. The tenancy started when the tenant moved in, and will end when they leave.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Ericthelobster View Post
                        If you issue a new 6-month agreement to run back-to-back with the old one, then the tenancy didn't "end" after the original agreement. The tenancy started when the tenant moved in, and will end when they leave.
                        No, if you issue a new 6-month agreement, a new tenancy is created.
                        Same as when a fixed term tenancy expires and is replaced by a statutory periodic tenancy.

                        Their T&C defines 'Tenancy' as such:
                        "Tenancy means an assured shorthold tenancy of a property which is part of the Custodial Tenancy Deposit Scheme;"

                        So indeed it does not refer to the period between the move in and move out dates, but to an actual tenancy.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I have raised before that the phrase 'tenancy' has different meanings to different people.

                          1) We know that a tenancy can't be unilaterally ended without a court order

                          2) We also know that jjlandlord is right, an SPT is a new tenancy, and the fixed term tenancy ends at expiry.

                          One says it can't be ended, the other says it does, automatically.

                          It's a bit like 'I am a tenant', no you are one of several joint tenants that form the legal entity "The Tenant".

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
                            And if T says no?
                            I give him notice, LOL

                            OR fill in s13 form and post - 2 minutes and the chance of tenant declining are drastically reduced.
                            um, why would the chances of the T declining be drastically reduced?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Ericthelobster View Post
                              You (and the tenant) also have the benefit of increased security of tenancy; which may be something either or both of you value. I certainly prefer to issue a new agreement if I have a good tenant in place; it means I'm not wondering every month whether I'm going to be given 1 months' notice of them leaving. I do leave it up to the tenant to decide whether they want a new agreement or prefer to go 'periodic'. Also, I'll maybe offer a 12-month agreement and even offer a small discount on the rent if they go for it. As has been said - the paperwork involved is trivial.
                              I get this. And it makes a lot of sense. Thank you.

                              I have been in the past too lazy to renew tenancies, and just let them roll on. I think I need to change this.

                              This T has so far been really good, no problems and pays on time etc. He has asked if I would consider a 6 month renewal agreement instead of 12. Then look at renewing at end of Jan 2013. But there is no guarantee he will renew again. and I normally prefer 12 month sign-ups, so don't have to revisit so often. What do you think?

                              In Jan and Feb can be 'slow' in terms of tenancy changeovers..

                              Comment

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