Confused about S21 notice - tenant

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    Confused about S21 notice - tenant

    Hi,

    A week or so ago I received an email from the estate agent stating 'your tenancy will expire on 7th July 2012. If you wish to stay on in the property the landlord may be willing subject to a rent increase to be discussed and signing of a new tenancy agreement, the cost of which will be £110.'

    There was a S21 notice attached which seems from everything I know to be valid, 7th July 2012 is more than 2 months away and that is the last day of a rental period according to my tenancy agreement. My original tenancy was a 1 year AST at a rent of £1400 per month which expired on 7th January 2012 and I have been on a statutory periodic tenancy since then.

    I emailed the estate agent and said that I would have liked to stay on but did not want to sign a new tenancy agreement as I felt I would be paying £110 for nothing. As such I would give vacant possession on 7th July 2012 and return the keys on that date.

    The estate agent replied today stating that he had discussed with the landlord and the landlord is happy for me to stay on in the statutory periodic tenancy without signing a new tenancy agreement, and that he would leave the rent as it is for now.

    But my confusion is - what will my status be after 7th July 2012? Notwithstanding that the landlord says he has changed his mind and wants me to stay, I have still been served with a valid S21 notice so as I understand it he could apply for a court order any time he wants after that and without any great notice, so that I would be forever wondering if he was going to change his mind again and turf me out...

    Is that correct that he would be in a position to turf me out without needing to give a further two months notice from changing his mind? I'm really confused about this area. If it is, I will ignore his change of heart and give my *own* notice that I am intending to move out on 7th July 2012.

    #2
    Just ask them to confirm the agreement that the LL is rescinding the S21 and allowing you to exercise your right to a Statutory Periodic Tenancy (no renewal so no charge) in writing.

    It is likely the LA issue an S21 as standard practice as they want to charge you the renewal, and many inexperienced tenants would likely cough up and sign, rather than question it. The S21 gives the impression that it is "sign it or else"!

    Comment


      #3
      Thanks, I will do so. I assume that if that is done then the landlord would need to issue an entirely new notice to seek possession if/when he changes his mind again, and wouldn't be able to rely on the old one at all?

      Comment


        #4
        That would be my understanding of the situation. Never take a letting agent's word for anything unless they are prepared to back it in writing. TBH they would have charged your LL a renewal fee too, so by not renewing he is saving money too.

        Comment


          #5
          I'm not sure a s21 can be rescinded - the statute requires a notice to be served - it has.

          IMHO, the landlord can commence eviction proceedings at any time (once the current s21 expires) but the court process will take around 6 weeks and the bailiffs probably as long - so you'll not be turfed out without notice.

          The only way to 'cancel' the s21 is to sign a new tenancy agreement, in which case the s21 is no longer valid.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
            I'm not sure a s21 can be rescinded - the statute requires a notice to be served - it has.
            Perhaps rescind was not the correct term - Maybe LA/LL could confirm that they will not persue court action in the event that the tenant remains on SPT at the end of the fixed term, without issuing a further notice of possession first. But then, knowing how fickle statute and the courts can be, maybe this wouldn't be worth the paper it was written on ...

            OP, I take it your deposit has been protected and you have received the prescribed information from the scheme used? If not, then S21 is invalid anyway.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
              I'm not sure a s21 can be rescinded - the statute requires a notice to be served - it has.

              IMHO, the landlord can commence eviction proceedings at any time (once the current s21 expires) but the court process will take around 6 weeks and the bailiffs probably as long - so you'll not be turfed out without notice.

              The only way to 'cancel' the s21 is to sign a new tenancy agreement, in which case the s21 is no longer valid.
              Ah - that was what I was worried about which led to me making the OP. I had a feeling that once the notice was served that might be it.

              In that case I will make sure I am out on the day specified in the S21, just to clarify, the S21 is not a notice to quit, so I need to give my own notice that I am moving out on that date, at least one month in advance of 7th July 2012? Obviously I don't want to get involved in any kind of court proceedings (not to mention bailiffs!), it probably wouldn't get me a great reference when I am looking in the £1500-£2k a month range !!

              Lesley - yes my deposit is protected and I received all the information.

              Comment


                #8
                You need to give notice.
                When did your last tenancy agreement begin?
                Allow tenants to protect their own deposits. I want free money when they do it wrong

                Comment


                  #9
                  Given your earlier stated dates your NTQ must be served on (received by)LL on or before 6 June. On expiry (6 Jul) your T will be terminated!

                  Why are you leaving after saving £100 renewal fee and no rent increase for the present, you are going to have to prob pay £200+ admin & ref fees, temp find 1 month advance rent + new deposit, for an unknown LL to provide accom of uncertain quality, just because you don't want risk of LL acting on a valid s21 at some date in the future?
                  It would take IMO min 6wks for LL to get hearing even if he applied tomorrow, + Judge can allow a further 14-56 days stay, so you will still get ~2 months notice to comply with a No Fault notice.
                  If you have no pressing need to move, why do it?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    If you want to leave on 7th July, you can without notice. You have no legal need to give notice at the end of a fixed term tenancy - although it would obviously be polite to do so. Many landlords dispute this, but this document by Shelter on the Housing Law Practitioners Association website outlines the law involved (MS Word Reqd). http://www.hlpa.org.uk/cms/wp-conten...-last-day.docx
                    Once the fixed term has passed - even by just one day - you have a 'Statutory Periodic Tenancy' under section 5 of the 1988 Housing Act. Written notice required from tenants is a minimum of one month - with the leaving date being the last day of a tenancy period.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
                      If you want to leave on 7th July, you can without notice.
                      Are you sure?
                      The opening post gives contradictory comments, but I would say he has to give notice:

                      My original tenancy was a 1 year AST at a rent of £1400 per month which expired on 7th January 2012 and I have been on a statutory periodic tenancy since then.
                      Allow tenants to protect their own deposits. I want free money when they do it wrong

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by thesaint View Post
                        Are you sure?
                        The opening post gives contradictory comments, but I would say he has to give notice:
                        Good point. If the 7th July is the last day of his fixed term, then he has no obligation to give notice to leave on that day. He has given no commitment to stay past that day, even though he has a right to do so.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Im reading this as the OP is already in a stat periodic tenancy and has been since January? Also do I recollect something about the offer to renew the tenancy being includedin the same letter with the S21 making it invalid? On the one hand they are offering a new tenancy at the same time as they are advising they are asking for possession.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
                            Good point. If the 7th July is the last day of his fixed term, then he has no obligation to give notice to leave on that day. He has given no commitment to stay past that day, even though he has a right to do so.
                            I don't think there is any doubt that OP must give notice to quit if he wants to unilaterally end the tenancy. The fixed term has expired.

                            The confusion arises due to the wording of the agent's email, falsely implying that the s.21 notice expiring 7th July would end the tenancy on that date.

                            Originally posted by Mark W View Post
                            A week or so ago I received an email from the estate agent stating 'your tenancy will expire on 7th July 2012. If you wish to stay on in the property the landlord may be willing subject to a rent increase to be discussed and signing of a new tenancy agreement, the cost of which will be £110.'

                            There was a S21 notice attached which seems from everything I know to be valid, 7th July 2012 is more than 2 months away and that is the last day of a rental period according to my tenancy agreement. My original tenancy was a 1 year AST at a rent of £1400 per month which expired on 7th January 2012 and I have been on a statutory periodic tenancy since then.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Mark W View Post
                              Hi,

                              A week or so ago I received an email from the estate agent stating 'your tenancy will expire on 7th July 2012. If you wish to stay on in the property the landlord may be willing subject to a rent increase to be discussed and signing of a new tenancy agreement, the cost of which will be £110.'

                              There was a S21 notice attached which seems from everything I know to be valid, 7th July 2012 is more than 2 months away and that is the last day of a rental period according to my tenancy agreement. My original tenancy was a 1 year AST at a rent of £1400 per month which expired on 7th January 2012 and I have been on a statutory periodic tenancy since then.
                              Assuming I am reading this correctly, and you are on a SPT, and the LL has served a s.21 notice expiring 7th July, then the agent is wrong in asserting that 'your tenancy will expire' on that date.

                              A s.21 notice is not a notice to quit. It does not end the tenancy nor oblige the T to vacate. Its only effect is to entitle the LL to apply for a possession order after the notice expires.

                              But my confusion is - what will my status be after 7th July 2012? Notwithstanding that the landlord says he has changed his mind and wants me to stay, I have still been served with a valid S21 notice so as I understand it he could apply for a court order any time he wants after that ...
                              Your status after 7th July will be exactly the same as before the 7th July. Yes, if the notice is valid, then the LL may apply for possession at any time after 7th July. If you and LL meanwhile agree a new fixed term contract, this would invalidate the notice previously served.

                              Comment

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