How long are we responsable for rent after receiving a section 8 notice on grounds 12

[lujzapok]

Hi everyone, I hope you can advise me on this housing issue.

We are privately renting a flat since oct. 2008. The original conctract has expired in oct. 2011, and had been renewed for 1 year. This renewed contract doesn't have a break close.

The original contract said no pets, but in 2010 we got a conditional premission from the landlord to keep a pet unless it disturbes the neighbours.

End of Jan 2012, Landlord took back the premission, and asked us to get rid of the cat. We said no and stated we are waiting for a notice from him.

He emailed us that we need to look for other accomodation as we are breaking now the rules of the original contract by keeping a pet, and the landlord stated he will serve a notice soon. In the mean time we found an other place, and agreed to move in there end of March.

We received a notice section 8 for seeking posession on ground 12, 14 a week ago. In the notice it sais the court procedure won't start till end of April, and we need to tell the landlord when we are willing to vacate the property.

My questions are: can we reply to this we'll leave earlier then this notic expire? Till what date are we reliable for rent? Untill the notice expires? Or untill we vacate the property? The landlord sais we are responsible untill end of October, the original end date of the contract.

Please advise us! Many thanks!

[Interlaken]

When the original contract was renewed did it mention the special condition of keeping a cat or cancel it at that point? Was it a separate, new tenancy agreement.

Has the cat caused neighbours to complain - why did LL ask you to get rid of the cat?

You could well be responsible for the rent until October - hopefully someone else will advise shortly but answer my other 2 questions.

[westminster]

My questions are: can we reply to this we'll leave earlier then this notic expire? Till what date are we reliable for rent? Untill the notice expires? Or untill we vacate the property? The landlord sais we are responsible untill end of October, the original end date of the contract.

The notice doesn't entitle you to move out with no further rental liability. You are liable for rent until the end of the fixed term, unless either:

1) the LL obtains a possession order and evicts you (and it is extremely unlikely he would obtain an order in the circumstances, i.e. just because you have a cat), or

2) you and LL both agree an early surrender/end of the tenancy.

If you wish to end the tenancy early then you should negotiate with the LL re a surrender. But LL can't have it both ways - he can't agree a surrender and also charge you rent up to the end of the fixed term.

Do not sign a contract on the other property before agreeing a surrender with the current LL. It must be agreed in writing and executed as a Deed (i.e. it must say it's a Deed, and be witnessed).

[mariner]

If 2011 Contract states new fixedn term from commencement, thenyou remain liable for property and rent to Oct 12, unless the T is legally terminated as indicated by Westminster. You should have sought new permission for cat.
Grounds 12 & 14 are only discretionary and Judge may not grant repo.

The worrying one is g14

There are four other discretionary grounds which deal with situations of misconduct on the part of the tenant:

•Ground 12: that the tenant has broken one or more of his obligations under the tenancy agreement.
•Ground 13: that the condition of the premises or any of the common parts has deteriorated because of the behaviour of the tenant, his subtenant, or any other person living there.
•Ground 14: that the tenant or someone living in or visiting the property has been guilty of conduct which is, or is likely to cause a nuisance or annoyance to neighbours. Or that a person residing or visiting the dwelling house has been convicted of using the property, or allowing it to be used, for immoral or illegal purposes or has committed an arrestable offence in, or in the locality of, the dwelling house.
•Ground 15: that the condition of the furniture has deteriorated because it has been ill-treated by the tenant, his subtenant, or someone living there.
(This is a summary of the grounds - the full wording of each Ground is given in The Housing Act 1988).

I would have thought cat was covered under g12. What else could LL alledge to justify g14?

[thesaint]

I would offer in writing(send it from a Post Office and get a free certificate of posting)to move out on "x" date.

Make it clear that if the landlord doesn't accept, then you will contest any court fees, as you were willing to move out before the landlord filed his application.

[markdoc]

liability

Given Landlord has asked you to leave on a ground the judge would be unlikely to grant, if you move out you will only be liablie for rent up till that day
The landlord had asked for an early termination of contract, if you move out you have agreed to that.
No judge would grant eviction just for a cat, especially as it had been allowed before

[westminster]

Given Landlord has asked you to leave on a ground the judge would be unlikely to grant, if you move out you will only be liablie for rent up till that day

Completely incorrect advice.

[PaulF]

In my experience discretionary grounds always fail at the first attempt as judges will give a tenant the opportunity to rectify that breach, and then only if it is serious. Keeping a cat under the circumstances OP states is not going to pursuade a judge to grant possession, and probably wouldn't require the tenant to rehouse the cat anyway. Landlords fail to realise that some clauses about not keeping pets will fall foul of the potential unfair contract terms and this is where this case is likely to end, in favour of the tenant.

I wouldn't be giving the landlord the satisfaction of moving early if the tenancy was allowed to be surrendered. I would be going to court to see the landlord waste his time and money!

[mariner]

"I wouldn't be giving the landlord the satisfaction of moving early if the tenancy was allowed to be surrendered. I would be going to court to see the landlord waste his time and money!"

In which case, I hope LL would def pursue you for Court fees!
T would not be able to move to new property already found without risk of incurring double rent and losing all of deposit.
LL wants OP out, OP has found new accom & prepared to move.
Negotiation offers advantages to both IMO
otherwise let LLs rent at daily hotel rates for a suite of rooms.