N215, Is there a need for it

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    N215, Is there a need for it

    Hi, I've tried to find an answer to my question but i've not managed to put my mind at rest! I've served a section 21 on T, the AST began on 9th Oct 2011 and ends on 8th April 2012, the agreement states that it ends at 11 am, I served it by post on 29 of Jan. my query is that in the " date of expiry of this notice " I have put the date 8th April 2012. Is this wrong? Do I have to re serve? I appreciate all advice! Thanks

    #2
    Why have you put a specific time on the AST?

    I would suggest your AST date is wrong - because you are seeking possession before the end of the tenancy agreement. Had it said "after 8th April 2011" that would have been fine.

    Comment


      #3
      Yes, the expiry date is wrong unless you wrote "after 8th April 2012".

      Also, if you posted the notice on 29th Jan, which was a Sunday, you won't, I assume, have any evidence of the date you posted it, e.g. a certificate of posting.

      Comment


        #4
        Thanks for your response, the time was on the AST that I used, I didn't include it. The word "after" wasn't printed on the notice, I used the landlordzone section21. The T are also over 2 month in arrears, they have been a nightmare from the start, should I re serve a 21 and a section 8?

        Comment


          #5
          The landlordzone s21 does include a note at the bottom of the page that says possession is required after the date specified - it is confusing for everyone, including the judge, but it should succeed.

          I still don't understand the 11am - you issued the s21 didn't you? You chose to use one that had a non-standard start time? It's not worth getting worked up over - it is just strange.

          Can you confirm that the end date of 8/4/12 is specified on the agreement or does it just say '6 months'?

          As per Westminsters post, do you have proof of when you served this section 21 notice?
          I presume deposits were protected before the s21 was served?
          Prescribed information given to the tenant? And that can be proved?

          Comment


            #6
            Thanks for responding. The word "After" wasn't printed on the 21 so in my inexperience I didnt know it was an issue until afterwards. I dated the notice 3 days ahead of the date I posted it as recommended, I had proof of postage. The T are also over 2 months in arrears what would be your suggestion? This is my first attempt to regain possession of a property, all advice would be appreciated!
            Ive just double checked, the AST states 6 months. 9/10/11 to 8/4/12. cheers
            Last edited by saintdave1313; 17-02-2012, 17:37 PM. Reason: additional info

            Comment


              #7
              The AST does specify 8/4/12. not 6 months.I issued the 21, I have proof of postage, the date was 3 days ahead of postage date. I just thought the 11am would have an influence if the word after was not used. Where on the landlordzone 21 does it use the term after? the deposit is in order.Thanks for replying,
              Ive just doble checked, the AST states 6months and the dates 9/10/11 to 8/4/12. cheers
              Last edited by saintdave1313; 17-02-2012, 17:39 PM. Reason: additional info

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by saintdave1313 View Post
                The AST does specify 8/4/12. not 6 months.I issued the 21, I have proof of postage, the date was 3 days ahead of postage date. I just thought the 11am would have an influence if the word after was not used. Where on the landlordzone 21 does it use the term after? the deposit is in order.Thanks for replying
                Note 9

                You must have posted the s21 no later than Monday 6th February (1st class) and it can only be served by post if the tenancy agreement says that notices can be served by post - otherwise hand delivery is the only acceptable means.

                Comment


                  #9
                  thanks for the reply, the AST states that postage is acceptable.I posted it on 27/1/12. found note 9, thanks. do you think i will succeed?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    You should do, but I would make it clear, when you complete the n5b, that the expiry date was after 8th April.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by saintdave1313 View Post
                      I dated the notice 3 days ahead of the date I posted it as recommended
                      As recommended by whom? And what do you mean by 'ahead of'? That you put a date on it which was three days after you actually posted it?

                      You don't put a date of service or issue on a s.21 notice; you obtain evidence of the date of delivery or posting. If there is any doubt about the length of notice, putting a so-called date of service or issue can muddy the waters. In this particular case, it may not matter, but just telling you for future reference.

                      Also, in post #1 you said you posted the notice on Sunday 29th Jan. In post #9 you say you posted it on Friday 27th Jan. Again, as you weren't posting too close to a deadline, it doesn't matter, but it could well matter in different circumstances.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Thanks for the Advice so far Snorkerz and westminster,
                        The 3 day recomendation was at the bottom of the landlordzone s21, i posted 27th first class but put 29th on thinking a date had to be specified where requested on the s21, hope that explains my logic!
                        I think im going to re serve the s21, I'd rather get it right now than get it kick out of court further down the line,I hope you can help clarify afew points so I get it right this time?
                        1 the s21 I used had boxes requesting date of service and date of expiry,am i right in thinking they are to be left empty?
                        2 as I'm still in the fixed period(AST ends 8/4/12) does the 2 month notice start as soon as notice is served, not on 9th of month which is the start date of tenancy?
                        3 when would the notice expire if served tomorrow?in person with a witness(19/2/12)
                        4 the N5B form requests in section 5 the date the notice expires, what date would that be? Do I have to include the word "after" even though there is no space allocated for writing?
                        5 Snorkerz, you queried my AST, it states 6 months and the dates 9/10/11 to 8/4/12 are my AST date correct?
                        6 Is the landlordzone s21 still ok to use or do you recommend another?

                        Hope there's not too many questions, and you you can help? It'll be a weight off my shoulders knowing its right!
                        Many thanks

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by saintdave1313 View Post
                          1 the s21 I used had boxes requesting date of service and date of expiry,am i right in thinking they are to be left empty?
                          2 as I'm still in the fixed period(AST ends 8/4/12) does the 2 month notice start as soon as notice is served, not on 9th of month which is the start date of tenancy?
                          3 when would the notice expire if served tomorrow?in person with a witness(19/2/12)
                          ...
                          ...
                          6 Is the landlordzone s21 still ok to use or do you recommend another?
                          1. No date of service should be given, but there must be a date of expiry.

                          2. The notice period begins the day after the notice is served. It must be at least two months, and must expire after the end of the fixed term - it doesn't have to expire at the end of a tenancy period as would a s.21 notice served in a periodic tenancy.

                          3. Sunday is a somewhat uncertain day for service, so I'd proceed on the assumption that the notice would be deemed served on Monday 20th Feb if you served it tomorrow in person. The earliest it could expire would be "after 20th April 2012" but it could also expire any date thereafter.

                          6. I would recommend the template available on this link - the s.21 for service during the fixed term:
                          http://www.letlink.co.uk/letting-lib...and-forms.html Note that this one has a space for signing/dating signature - although it's not essential for a LL to sign a s.21 notice, it's fine to do so, and it's fine to date your signature (with the date that you actually signed it).

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Thanks for your reply,
                            could you offer any advice regarding points 4 and 5 please?
                            just to clarify the dates problem, if i'd served the notice before the 2 month notice went past the end of the fixed tenancy period, would i have still needed to give a date of expiry, in this case "after 8/4/12"? sorry to go on but would like to understand it correctly for future
                            many thanks again

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Section 21(1)(b) - served during the fixed term. Usually has an expiry date which is the later of - a) at least 2 months after service or b) the last day of the tenancy period.

                              Section 21(4)(a) - served during a periodic tenancy. Must have an expiry date that is at least 2 months after service and the last day of a tenancy period.

                              In both cases, to be expressed as 'after' date.

                              4) just 8th April
                              5) not a problem

                              Comment

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