How to Supersede a S21

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    How to Supersede a S21

    Hello all,

    I think I have messed up with a s21, ie not allowed sufficient notice, if I want to start again whats the process, will the new s21 automatically displace the old one.

    Note I served the old one on the 9th Dec 06, giving notice upto 10th Feb, however the tennat would not have received it untill the 11th earliest, hence me on a sticky wicket.

    So today I will be re-issuing from the 18th Dec 06 (to be delivered in person) and expiring on the 20th Feb 07.

    Am i ok to proceed like this.

    Best regards

    #2
    Originally posted by taheemr View Post
    Hello all,

    I think I have messed up with a s21, ie not allowed sufficient notice, if I want to start again whats the process, will the new s21 automatically displace the old one.

    Note I served the old one on the 9th Dec 06, giving notice upto 10th Feb, however the tennat would not have received it untill the 11th earliest, hence me on a sticky wicket.

    So today I will be re-issuing from the 18th Dec 06 (to be delivered in person) and expiring on the 20th Feb 07.

    Am i ok to proceed like this.

    Best regards
    1. If old s.21 Notice invalid, it never exists legally- so new one is Ok and nothing to displace.
    2. Is old one invalid, though? S.21(1)(b) requires L to give T "not less than two months notice", which can't expire before fixed term expires. Didn't your old notice give two months? Who said anything about receipt by T?
    3. All the above assumes fixed term expiry on 10 February 2007.
    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

    Comment


      #3
      Please keep follow up questions in the same thread. The S21 is invalid because the tenant could not have received it in time due to the method of delivery. Also, was the wording correct as asked earlier? As Jeffrey said, serve a new s21, the old one is not valid, if you are in any doubt as to the wording, use the Lawpack S21 available from most good stationers, full instructions are included.

      Comment


        #4
        The new S21 will indeed supersede the old one. Provided that the date on which the notice was received by your tenant was during thr fixed period of the AST you should not have problems. If your AST has gone statutory periodic, then the period must be at least two months and end on a rent day. i.e. monthly AST issued on 5th. January for six months, the rent day is the 5th. of the month. Issue S21 after 5th. June, notice must end AFTER the day before a rent day, so issue the S21 on, say the 20th. June, the notice period must end AFTER 4th. September.

        P.P.
        Last edited by P.Pilcher; 18-12-2006, 23:12 PM. Reason: "Superceed"
        Any information given in this post is based on my personal experience as a landlord, what I have learned from this and other boards and elsewhere. It is not to be relied on. Definitive advice is only available from a Solicitor or other appropriately qualified person.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by P.Pilcher View Post
          The new S21 will indeed superceed the old one. Provided that the date on which the notice was received by your tenant was during thr fixed period of the AST you should not have problems. If your AST has gone statutory periodic, then the period must be at least two months and end on a rent day. i.e. monthly AST issued on 5th. January for six months, the rent day is the 5th. of the month. Issue S21 after 5th. June, notice must end AFTER the day before a rent day, so issue the S21 on, say the 20th. June, the notice period must end AFTER 4th. September.

          P.P.
          I agree with dating notes here. They apply whether AST is fixed term beginning on 5 January OR periodic from day one but still beginning then. Notice would be under s.21(4)(a) if periodic AST arising immediately after fixed-term one.

          Only thing not agreed: spelling- SUPERSEDE.
          JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
          1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
          2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
          3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
          4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

          Comment


            #6
            Thank you for your spelling correction - it didn't look right and I was in a hurry this morning. One thing though. All AST's start with a fixed period of what ever you like. When this expires they automatically go statutory periodic. Even if you make the fixed period one day so that in effect the AST is statutory periodic from day one, a Landlord cannot start court proceedings under S21 to get the tenant out until he has been in residence for six months. As far as a landlord is concerned then, an AST has a minimum fixed period of six months nomatter what he writes in the agreement - of course he can make it longer.

            P.P.
            Any information given in this post is based on my personal experience as a landlord, what I have learned from this and other boards and elsewhere. It is not to be relied on. Definitive advice is only available from a Solicitor or other appropriately qualified person.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by P.Pilcher View Post
              Thank you for your spelling correction - it didn't look right and I was in a hurry this morning. One thing though. All AST's start with a fixed period of what ever you like. When this expires they automatically go statutory periodic. Even if you make the fixed period one day so that in effect the AST is statutory periodic from day one, a Landlord cannot start court proceedings under S21 to get the tenant out until he has been in residence for six months. As far as a landlord is concerned then, an AST has a minimum fixed period of six months nomatter what he writes in the agreement - of course he can make it longer.

              P.P.
              Semantics, my friend. Fixed term= pre-determined duration, perhaps followed by periodic. AST can be periodic from day 1.

              So: no, ASTs don't all start with a fixed period. All tenancies have a duration, it's true, but - unless you can say that there's a fixed term at first - it's periodic.

              But I agree that s.21 possession can't be obtained in first six months anyway, unless it's a re-issued tenancy (same L & T as expired one).
              JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
              1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
              2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
              3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
              4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

              Comment

              Latest Activity

              Collapse

              Working...
              X