Question about police and section 21

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    #16
    Originally posted by spool View Post
    The church are issuing us with a section 21...
    Hope you have contacted the council to tell them the church are now guilty of
    harrasment.
    The council can help quash / defend the S21 ( so i have been reliably informed, in a
    short conversation, but i have no further details ).

    Also, the Landlord has to be in court, so you will then know who the landlord is,
    and ask them to prove, in court, they are the landlord.
    Then you can point out the reasons for the issue of the S21 beause the landlord
    is breaking the law, refuses to own up to being the landlord so he / they
    cannot be prosecuted, and are issuing the S21 so they cannot be prosecuted.

    Have your day in court, but you must insist the council are at court too for
    your defence, but your written defence may well sway the judge.

    Use every means at your disposal.

    I have never seen a completed S21 ( always been a good boy ) so I asume
    it has to be signed by the Landlord ?, but the landlord has to attend
    court in any event

    If I was in court, i would say to the judge, just a moment sir, I am just going to
    hand over this to the landlord, ( and do it ) as I have been unable to get to know
    who the landlord is, and it's a list of breaches of the law that I wil now be suing him
    for, now that I know who the landlord is, and this list is why they are isssuing an
    S21, to prevent me from suing the landlord so give me a habitable home.

    I also want you your honour, to instruct the landlord, to give me address to which
    I can serve court papers to, as since 2005 ( i think you said ) have been unable
    to have direct contact with the landlord as the church have refused togive me
    thelandlords name and address.

    R.a.M. ( Different perspective, but you have to go that one step further )

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by ram View Post
      Hope you have contacted the council to tell them the church are now guilty of harrasment.
      How is serving a s.21 notice harassment?

      Comment


        #18
        I would now write to the church council explaining that you will see them in court with all your proof .Seems like the church are bullying you .Contact the national papers and make sure you create interest in this .
        Disgraceful conduct IMHO

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by spool View Post
          That seems to have done the job. I email the PCC (church council) and told them I was contacting my MP to ask him to take up our case with the Church Commissioners' representative in Parliament.

          A meeting has been set for tonight for them to discuss the issue. I will keep you posted. Thanks a million!!!!
          So who is actually your LL?

          Is it the "Church Commissioners", the Local Diocese, or the Local Parish?

          Respectively you would be dealing with a headquarters in London, the Derby Diocesan people in Derby, or your local PCC (representative body which runs the admin/facilities - as opposed to the worship - side of the local parish), or possibly with a separate Trust of some sort.

          It is important because "The Church" is actually thousands of organisations - each parish is effectively it's own setup, which allows a lot of local variation and makes 'senior management' cross, when they won't be told what to do.

          From what you say, it sounds as if it is the local Anglican Parish Church who are your LL - which is quite unusual since much of the property was centralised decades ago.

          OTOH the Church Commissioners are usually quite professional in the way they run things, as they have thousands of tenancies varying from social-style subsidised housing to free market tenancies.

          Best of luck.

          ML
          Refer Mad Regulators to Arkell vs Pressdram.

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by jjlandlord View Post
            How is serving a s.21 notice harassment?
            You can say anything in court, about any one, on anything, and would not be
            seen as libel or slander, otherwise you could never put your case accross at
            court.

            The art of court is to give all the facts, even if the judge says, "Strike that
            from the records" because once you have said it, it's in their minds, even if they
            cannot record the fact.
            It all adds up for the final outcome.

            S21, - if you ask me to abide by the law and fix the faults, i will throw you out.
            In my mind, that is harrassment, and they have done it for a second time !

            They are harrasing the tenant, by saying, if you claim, we will thow you out,
            and we will be relentess in our quest to shut you up so we dont' get sued for
            breaking the law when it is duty as landlord to obey the law.

            I had "He is of questionalble parentage" stuck out, but we all knew I meant
            he was a Bastard !

            And to find out who the landlord is, he has to attend court
            ( correct me if i am wrong )
            So you can serve papers on the landlord in court, in front of the judge.
            Just go over, and hand over papers, just papers, no envelope
            and return to your seat, making sure the judge knows what and why
            you did it, and give him a copy.

            What better witness can you have, than a judge, for proof of service !
            to the REAL landlord. ( who you have not been able to trace )


            R.a.M.
            Last edited by ram; 12-01-2012, 13:43 PM. Reason: last 4 lines added

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by spool View Post
              … the property has many defects that include a roof in a bad state of disrepair, damp concreat floors, rising damp on all walls in the house, areas that are considered a fire risk, health and safty issues due to bathroom opening up directly next to food area, cess pit and drainage issues, rotten windows and a collapsed inglnook that has had to be propped. The list goes on and on.
              With a property in such a poor state, it may be that the landlord has decided that repairing/renovating with the tenant in situ isn’t practical, and like many landlords in this situation it is cheaper and easier to end the tenancy than to pay for alternative accommodation. So, maybe not a ‘blackmail’ tactic at all?
              I also post as Moderator2 when moderating

              Comment


                #22
                RaM, the landlord neither has to sign a s21 notice, nor be in court (if there is a court hearing) as a solicitor can attend instead. After all, if 'Barclays' is the landlord, would you expect the non-existant 'Mr Barclay' to attend?

                The church can happily deny that they are evicting because of the tenants complaints, because they do not have to give any reason.

                I am not sure why you feel a section 21 can be defended on a disrepair basis? The judge has no discretion - the statute (21.1 and 21.4) says "a court shall make an order for possession of a dwelling-house let on an assured shorthold tenancy".

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
                  I am not sure why you feel a section 21 can be defended
                  on a disrepair basis? ".
                  No, not "Defended" but a reason given for why they issued the S21.

                  "first time I complained about the disrepair and they told me to get out"
                  but they then retracted it when the papers got involved."

                  " Second time, I had a meeting with them yesterday about them braking the
                  law and not repairing the property, and they told me to get out".

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Mars Mug View Post
                    With a property in such a poor state, it may be that the landlord has decided that repairing/renovating with the tenant in situ isn’t practical, and like many landlords in this situation it is cheaper and easier to end the tenancy than to pay for alternative accommodation. So, maybe not a ‘blackmail’ tactic at all?
                    We are the second tennants (family) to be evicted due to complaining I have since found out... It's more complext than you think but watered down for the forum.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      But the reason given is irrelevant with s21 - there doesn't 'need' to be a reason. We evict people because we want then out - that's good enough. "They gave me a section 21 because I like Bob Dylan" won't alter the courts decision. The court has no choice.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
                        But the reason given is irrelevant with s21 - there doesn't 'need' to be a reason. We evict people because we want then out - that's good enough. "They gave me a section 21 because I like Bob Dylan" won't alter the courts decision. The court has no choice.
                        I'm told that I have claim for illegal eviction and harassment so it doesn't matter if they need a reason or not. Any thoughts on this?

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
                          But the reason given is irrelevant with s21 - there doesn't 'need' to be a reason.
                          We evict people because we want then out - that's good enough.
                          "They gave me a section 21 because I like Bob Dylan" won't alter the
                          courts decision. The court has no choice.
                          If it were me, I would make dam sure everyone in the land, the courts
                          KNEW why the landlords were pushing me out.
                          They have issued a section 21 so that they may contunue to break the
                          law
                          by not repairing the property.

                          If it sits well with every one on here that this is aceptable, then be prepared
                          for all landlords reading this post, that they don't, and never have to repair
                          anything, they just issue a section 21 as soon as the complaints come in.

                          R.a.M.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by spool View Post
                            I'm told that I have claim for illegal eviction and harassment so it doesn't matter if they need a reason or not. Any thoughts on this?
                            I can see that you may have a claim for attempted illegal eviction and for harassment. However, section 21 is NOT illegal eviction, it is (perfectly legal) eviction. My discourse with RAM is with regard to his implication that anything could prevent you being legally evicted if the section 21 process had been correctly followed - and it can't.

                            You may well be able to seek damages for the awful situations you have been put through, but if yours is an Assured Shorthold Tenancy then parallel and independent of that, you may be evicted. It may not be fair, but it is true.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by ram View Post
                              If it were me, I would make dam sure everyone in the land, the courts
                              KNEW why the landlords were pushing me out.
                              They have issued a section 21 so that they may contunue to break the
                              law
                              by not repairing the property.

                              If it sits well with every one on here that this is aceptable, then be prepared
                              for all landlords reading this post, that they don't, and never have to repair
                              anything, they just issue a section 21 as soon as the complaints come in.

                              R.a.M.
                              Once the enviro are involved the repairs will be forced if we are the tennant or not but I can see where you are coming from.

                              You are correct though, circumstance before and after can affect the outcome of a section 21.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
                                My discourse with RAM is with regard to his implication that anything could prevent
                                you being legally evicted if the section 21 process had been correctly followed - and it can't.

                                you may be evicted. It may not be fair, but it is true.
                                I agree with Snorkerz.

                                My point was not that it is a defence, rather that you make dam sure every one
                                knows why you are being evicted, and that is your right.

                                but to say nothing about it in your defence, would be foolish.
                                O.P. has enough evidence.

                                If it were me there, I would say to judge ( and I know replies will come back, but
                                you can't do that ) It is the juristriction of this court to ensure that the law is
                                upheld, and defence is before you to clearly show why the Section 21 has been
                                issued.
                                If you grant execution of this S21, you are condoning the law braking of the
                                applicant, who has use Section 21 on two other occasions to gag their tentants,
                                so the Landlord may continue to break the law.
                                You as custodian of the law, you cannot be seen to allow such blatant law breaking,
                                by the applicant, and I respectfully request you adjourn this case until the finalisation
                                of the disrepair case has come to it's conclusion.
                                In my humble oppinion.

                                You write, you phone, you email, you do everything possible.
                                What can they do to you if you do such things, issue a section 21. ?!*#*?

                                R.a.M.

                                Comment

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