witness for section 21

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  • witness for section 21

    hello, I am new to this forum and need some guidance. I am about to serve a section 21 to my tenant on the 8 december. Am I correct in thinking that the possesion date I have to put on form is 29 feb 2012 giving 2 clear months or could I enter an earlier date ie 8 feb 2012. the ast ends on 2nd january 2012

  • #2
    If the fixed term of AST ends on 2 Jan 2012, I believe you can serve a s21 b (fixed term) now which does not require an end date, just 2 clear cal months for expiry.
    s 21 is not a NTQ therefore the end date is not a possession date just the date after which you can start Court hearing for poss. It is illegal to serve a s21 Notice until any deposit has been protected AND reqd info provided to Ts by LL (pref with Proof of Posting)
    If a s21 a (SPT) is required, service dates, rent period & start of AST are critical.
    eg If your example was for a 21a (SPT) the fixed term started 3 Jul 2010 and ended 2 Jan 2011 (year changed), rent due per cal month on 3rd of mo. T is now monthly SPT. s21a should be served (received by T) by 2 Jan 2012 and expiry date should state 'after 2 Mar 2012'.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by mariner View Post
      If the fixed term of AST ends on 2 Jan 2012, I believe you can serve a s21 b (fixed term) now which does not require an end date, just 2 clear cal months for expiry.
      s 21 is not a NTQ therefore the end date is not a possession date just the date after which you can start Court hearing for poss. It is illegal to serve a s21 Notice until any deposit has been protected AND reqd info provided to Ts by LL (pref with Proof of Posting)
      If a s21 a (SPT) is required, service dates, rent period & start of AST are critical.
      eg If your example was for a 21a (SPT) the fixed term started 3 Jul 2010 and ended 2 Jan 2011 (year changed), rent due per cal month on 3rd of mo. T is now monthly SPT. s21a should be served (received by T) by 2 Jan 2012 and expiry date should state 'after 2 Mar 2012'.
      Mariner, can I point out that your habit of abbreviating is affecting the advice you give.

      In the post above none of the references to S21 are written properly.

      They should be S21(1)(b) or S21(4)(a).

      I don't want to offend but I find some of your abbreviations very obscure and struggle to know what they mean.
      I offer no guarantee that anything I say is correct. wysiwyg

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      • #4
        serve section 21(1)(b) before 2.1.12.

        It's expiry date must be at least two months after the date of service. So, if you serve on 6th December, you can have an expiry date expressed as "after 7th February 2012".

        As Mariner said, a section 21 notice does NOT oblige the tenant to leave on the expiry date.

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        • #5
          Fair comment, jta. I have only recently memorised the distinction between 21a for periodic notice and 21b for notice issued during fixed term. (or should that be 'term certain'?
          Anyone who does not understand my abbreviations is at liberty to ask. Much of the advice sought and offered is repetitive and my typing speed low, along with my legal knowledge to provide a full citation.

          Perhaps this forum could have a 'sticky' link to LandlordZone Glossary?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by mariner View Post
            Fair comment, jta. I have only recently memorised the distinction between 21a for periodic notice and 21b for notice issued during fixed term. (or should that be 'term certain'?
            Anyone who does not understand my abbreviations is at liberty to ask. Much of the advice sought and offered is repetitive and my typing speed low, along with my legal knowledge to provide a full citation.

            Perhaps this forum could have a 'sticky' link to LandlordZone Glossary?
            As an FYI....

            section 21(1)(b) is for notices served within the fixed term and requires 2 months notice.

            section 21(4)(a) is for notices served during a statutory periodic tenancy and requires 2 months notice which must expire on the last day of a tenancy period.

            Note those last 2 words - 'tenancy period' - the legislation makes no reference to 'rent days' which is a mistake many make.

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            • #7
              section 21(1)b or section 21(4)a

              Hello, I am about to serve my tenant with a section 21 but I am not certain which one applies. The tenancy is an ast 6 month that ends 0n 10 Feb 2012.I intend the date of expiry of notice to be 11 Feb 2012 and will serve on 9 DEC 2011. There are 2 boxes on the template section 21 I downloaded, one for fixed term ast and one for periodic ast and I have to mark x in one that applies but I need to be certain.Any help would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks

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              • #8
                S21(1)(b).

                You will be able to start the process of possession the day after the fixed term runs out.

                If the last day of the tenancy contract is the 10th February you need to write the date as 'after 10th February 2012' that is the correct format.

                I would suggest that you actually send the notice today from two different post offices and obtain a certificate of posting from each. Do not use a signed for service because that can be refused. Courts will accept one letter going astray but two would be stretching credulity..

                Just to add, there is nothing to stop you hand delivering another copy as well by hand through the door, if you do then have a witness with you and take a photo with some form of proof of date in the picture.
                Last edited by jta; 05-12-2011, 05:41 AM. Reason: Just to add........
                I offer no guarantee that anything I say is correct. wysiwyg

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                • #9
                  many thanks for your help

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                  • #10
                    witness for section 21

                    when I serve a section 21 to tenant does the independent witness have to be non related.if so can is it ok to use a friend ? any help would be appreciated. thanks

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mariner View Post
                      It is illegal to serve a s21 Notice until any deposit has been protected
                      No it's not, it's just invalid.
                      The advice I give should not be construed as a definitive answer, and is without prejudice or liability. You are advised to consult a specialist solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

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                      • #12
                        Yes it is better to use someone unrelated to yourself. Get them to sign a declaration that they delivered S21 with time date etc, I might even use a mobile phone pic of friend actually delivering S21 as evidence.



                        Freedom at the point of zero............

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