Court action after posession

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Court action after posession

    I have been renting a flat for several years on a periodic assured shorthold tennancy. The tennancy always ran from the first of the month until the end of the month.


    In the middle of July the landlord issued me with a section 21 notice which ended on 30th September.

    After the 30th September had passed I was still living in the property. In the second week of October I received a claim form from the county court showing that the landlord was claiming for posession and that we could file a defence.

    I filed a short defence explaining that the council had comitted to rehousing me.


    Then in the first week of November the estate agent that the landlord uses (who I pay rent to and signed contract with) wrote us a letter saying we were in rent arrears in excess of £1000. The breakdown showed the rent was paid for September, but they were asking for two months rent for October and one month's rent for November. They also threatened to 'take posession of the garage' - but we have no garage. They also said that 'a posession notice had been granted and that our 14days notice had expired'.

    I wrote back to them saying they had made a mistake.


    Later that week the county court setion 21 posession order came though saying we must leave by 18th November. We now have a place to live and will empty the old flat by the 18th November.


    But the estate agent has now written to us saying that 'the landlord wishes to advise that she will be persuing you for unpaid rent for October onwards once you have vacated the property'.

    Can this be done?? The county court forms showed 30th September as the last date of the tennancy and I was fully paid up until that day. In October we were not bound by contract as it was terminated by them so did not pay any more.

    Also, we will be pasing our new address on to the estate agent so that they can contact us about the bond. I am planning on requesting that under no circumstances should they pass our new address on to the landlord. We have reason to believe she may harass us if she has this information and under the data protection act we do not want her to see that. We do not have her home address.

    Long winded I know, but your advice would be much apreciated.

    #2
    You are within your rights to stay in the property until the landlord gets a court bailiff to evict you, however you must keep paying rent right up until the bailiff knocks on the door. It is not harassment to demand money legitimately owed.
    I offer no guarantee that anything I say is correct. wysiwyg

    Comment


      #3
      But two of the letters sent to me were demanding over £1000 and threatening taking posession of something which does not exist. One of which also mentioned that a posession notice had been issued and had expired when in fact at that time it had not. They also demanded a full months rent for November even though we are leaving due to a posession order ending on 18th November.

      Even if rent for October and half of November was added up it would be around £500.



      Also they have at no time sent any official rent arrears request giving so many days to pay etc.

      Is this likely to stand up in court for them?

      And under what ground will they claim? They already have a section 21 granted.

      The fact is the landlord can write to me at her property, that is fair enough. But she has no business contacting me in any way at my new address. If she wishes to persue me in my eyes she should contact the court and they can then make contact with me.

      She has no more right for my new address as I do for her living address.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by maddypete View Post
        But two of the letters sent to me were demanding over £1000 and threatening taking posession of something which does not exist. One of which also mentioned that a posession notice had been issued and had expired when in fact at that time it had not. They also demanded a full months rent for November even though we are leaving due to a posession order ending on 18th November.

        Your landlord has no idea whether you will leave or not, what some tenants say and what they do does not always tie up.

        Even if rent for October and half of November was added up it would be around £500.

        You would need to give us the figures and a lot more of the story for us to check that.



        Also they have at no time sent any official rent arrears request giving so many days to pay etc.

        They do not have to, you are expected to know when the rent is due.

        Is this likely to stand up in court for them?

        Yes.

        And under what ground will they claim? They already have a section 21 granted.

        The landlord will probably use 'money claim online'.

        The fact is the landlord can write to me at her property, that is fair enough. But she has no business contacting me in any way at my new address.

        Yes she can.

        If she wishes to persue me in my eyes she should contact the court and they can then make contact with me.

        I'm sure she will.

        She has no more right for my new address as I do for her living address.
        Wrong. You are entitled to ask the agent for her address, he must give it to you within 21 days, by law.

        What on earth makes you think you can just stop paying your rent?
        I offer no guarantee that anything I say is correct. wysiwyg

        Comment


          #5
          I am bearing in mind this is a forum aimed at landlords so answers are likely to be biased towards the landlord's side. Like on similar cases on tenant forums where people are advising 'stop paying. Tenants being threatened always stop paying rent'.

          The only thing that binds me to pay rent is a contract between me and the landlord/agent. Nobody can dispute this. They have chosen to bring the contract to and end and have followed this up with court action confirming that in their eyes the last day of the tennancy was 30th September.

          Therefore on and after 1st October I was no longer an official tenant, more a person squatting in a property legally until forced to leave by court order, rather than a mutual agreement to rent.

          The tennancy agreement was the contract. They forfeitted this. How can they then change their minds and say we wish to enforce the thing we forfeitted after the date we forfeitted it?

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by maddypete View Post
            I am bearing in mind this is a forum aimed at landlords so answers are likely to be biased towards the landlord's side.

            That's not true, we pride ourselves on giving impartial advice to landlords and tenants alike


            Like on similar cases on tenant forums where people are advising 'stop paying. Tenants being threatened always stop paying rent'.

            The only thing that binds me to pay rent is a contract between me and the landlord/agent. Nobody can dispute this. They have chosen to bring the contract to and end and have followed this up with court action confirming that in their eyes the last day of the tennancy was 30th September.

            By staying in the property past your end of contract you automatically entered into a 'statutory periodic tenancy'. This would have exactly the same terms as your original one except that notice periods are governed by law. This tenancy would run month to month, you would have needed to give your landlord a minimum of a complete 'tenancy period' as notice, your landlord would have to give you 2 months.
            By that I am saying that you were, and still are, bound by the terms of your tenancy agreement.


            Therefore on and after 1st October I was no longer an official tenant, more a person squatting in a property legally until forced to leave by court order, rather than a mutual agreement to rent.

            No, you were not squatting, you were a permitted occupier, there is a big difference.

            The tennancy agreement was the contract. They forfeitted this. How can they then change their minds and say we wish to enforce the thing we forfeitted after the date we forfeitted it?
            Your landlord and agent appear to be ending your tenancy properly, nobody has forfeited rights to have the rent paid. You do owe the money, if it's not paid you may end up with a ccj in your name.
            I offer no guarantee that anything I say is correct. wysiwyg

            Comment


              #7
              Like on similar cases on tenant forums where people are advising 'stop paying.
              We don't! There is a case sometimes to withhold rent, but you need to follow a very detailed protocol. Usually not paying the rent ends up with the tenant paying extra costs such as court fees.
              I offer no guarantee that anything I say is correct. wysiwyg

              Comment


                #8
                I thought that if they have given you a section 21 with an end date you are entitled to leave anytime during this notice without giving notice to the landlord? Surely if they say 'we want you out by 30th September' you don't have to give calandar notice.

                The longer version of the story is much more complicated. Our original tennancy stated that inspections be carried out every six months. The landlord wanted to change them to every three months as she found out we had a cat. Despite us asking the agency if cats were ok and being told yes. We objected to more regular inspections as 6 months was in the contract and we didn't hear from them for over 4 months. Then a section 21 notice from them came.

                Also a neighbour caused some damage to the flat (without entering) through carelessness. Can't provide details on this but basically the building insurance had to pay up and the landlord had to contribute. She has held us responsible for this, probably because we were out when it happened although we raised the alarm as soon as we got in and prevented further damage.

                The contractors also bodged the repair work and left gaps in the paint etc and when we asked for the LL to arrange for their return we got nothing but negative replies.
                The same neighbour was verbally abusing my wife in the morning as she works an early shift and leaves via the communal door before 6am. She reported us to the agent who repeatidly kept writing to us saying we are causing nuisance without hearing our side.

                We have paid nearly £250000 in rent over the years, never late. All this was forgotten as soon as we wouldn't agree to more regular inspections. We have agreed to all their rent increases.

                Comment


                  #9
                  The section 21 notice is not a notice to quit, it is a notice requiring possession and does not end the tenancy, it merely allows the landlord to apply to the court for possession after its expiry. I agree that 'notice seeking possesion' is an unclear term - but that is the phrase the legislation forces upon us. It does not remove your obligation to comply with the tenancy obligations regarding notice.

                  The reasons behind your eviction under section 21 are irrelevant - you are being evicted for no other reasons than it is the landlords right to take possession of the property if you are out of contract.

                  FWIW I can only think of one 'tenants forum' where you would be given such dangerous advice.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    LL served proper s21 before 31 July which expired correctly at end of Sept (2 months). This did not end T, only a Court Order can do that if it is LL claiming possession. ( If T gives notice to vacate, this would end the T on expiry) Even a Court Order does not nec end the T, just changes occupier status to 'not permitted' on date given IMO. LL can then seek Bailiffs to effect eviction, often weeks after Court Order date. For period between Court Order date (18 Nov) and physical vacation if later, LL can claim 'mesne profit' at 2x daily rent.
                    If you leave quietly on 18 Nov LL may/not pursue a SCC/MCOL action for rent arrears and T damages, if not covered by deposit.
                    Quarter of a million£ paid in rent, even over several years, suggests a substantial monthly rent.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by mariner View Post
                      If you leave quietly on 18 Nov LL may/not pursue a SCC/MCOL action for rent arrears and T damages, if not covered by deposit.
                      Quarter of a million£ paid in rent, even over several years, suggests a substantial monthly rent.
                      Update. We left on 18th November and the agent has now acknowledged return of the flat to their posession.

                      They are saying that they have closed the deposit with the TDS. The closing balance stands at £600 (was £550 at the start). They are asking if we agree for them to use the deposit to pay off £560 in unpaid rent. One dodgy tactic they used though was to date the letter middle of last week but it wasn't postal stamped until 5 days later and delivered on day six. They then said if we do not hear from you within seven days we will assume you agree and will pay out to landlord.

                      Is this all normal and correct?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Does it matter?

                        No, the agency are being a bit underhand, but what can you do? Your contract is with the landlord. If you sue for the return of your deposit (improperly paid to him) he will counterclaim for unpaid rent. You end up paying the court fees to sue him AND being ordered to pay money to the landlord.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
                          Does it matter?

                          No, the agency are being a bit underhand, but what can you do? Your contract is with the landlord. If you sue for the return of your deposit (improperly paid to him) he will counterclaim for unpaid rent. You end up paying the court fees to sue him AND being ordered to pay money to the landlord.
                          So I would be better letting them take the deposit as unpaid rent?

                          They have made it sound like if we do it that way no deductions will be taken for any cleaning etc required for the flat. Although they have not reported any damage etc yet.

                          At the same time the agent is asking for permission to give my forwarding address to the landlord so that she can take legal action for rent arrears. I have declined that. I think they are piling on the pressure so that we agree to letting them keep the deposit.

                          They have carried out an inspection but have not reported back yet and have not suggested any amount they would wish to deduct .

                          Comment


                            #14
                            The landlord can sue you for any damages he can prove (less fair wear and tear) and for any unpaid rent. Obviously, if you let them use your deposit towards the rent, it will reduce the amount you owe. If you end up not owing much, the landlord may not think it's worth suing you. Even if he does sue, by paying some off it may reduce the court fees (which you will be ordered to pay). If it goes to court, you get a CCJ which sits on your credit file for 6 years and ruins applications for loans, credit cards, mortgages, mobile phones, rental properties etc etc.

                            If you withold your forwarding address the landlord will easily find you via a tracing agency. If he is clever, it will only cost him £50, if not, it may be a couple of hundred. Either way, you can expect to be sued for the cost of that, and the cost of the court claim too.

                            To be honest, you're not being very fair and I'm not sure this forum is a good place to get ideas about how to continue this state of affairs.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Legally fair means we should have kept paying. Fair morally to me means the landlord could have been more considerate after we rented the place for near six years and rent was always paid and we caused no problems. They decided to get rid of us and then after the section 21 notice expired did not give us anymore time to find a reasonable place.

                              Your world falls apart when you loose your home and it angers you. Call it male pride or whatever, or even stupid, but I made the decision to hold back the rent. I did not see why I should continue to co-operate when they were turfing us out. Yes its within their rights but they could have given us a little more time and a little less pressure to leave asap. You only have to google section 21 to see website after website saying that tenants will often stop paying once you start trying to evict them.

                              Comment

                              Latest Activity

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X