AST to Periodic

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    AST to Periodic

    Hi

    We have tenants who have been on a 6 month AST, due to end shortly.

    They have asked to change to a Periodic Tenancy as "there work contract is changing".

    Our letting agent advise the terms would be the same as the initial contract and they would still be required to provide one months notice on vacating.

    Is there anything I should be worried about here ?

    1. If their job is uncertain, they could just not pay the rent and we could be stuck with them ?

    2. Should I be glad to receive the rent a month at a time with no guarantee it will continue, or advertise for new tenants and risk having the property empty for a month or so inbetween.

    Any advice gladly welcomed.

    Paul

    #2
    I'm confused as you seem to intimate that you have received your rent in some way other than monthly.

    Have your tenants indicated in exactly what way their work contract is changing?

    Have they been model tenants ?

    I think more information is needed before anyone can give their opinion as to the pros and cons.

    Your letting agent is correct with regard to the periodic.
    Any information or opinion given in this post is based only on my personal experience, what I have learned from this, other boards and elsewhere. It is not to be relied on. Definitive advice is only available from a Solicitor or other appropriately qualified person. E&OE

    Comment


      #3
      Hi

      We are in the USA so we have a letting agent for the property.

      The tenants have been paying the rent for the last 5 months without problems.

      The agent sent a letter to our parents (even though they know we are over here and should email us), to say the AST is coming to an end and the tenants wish to change to a Periodic tenancy as their "work contract is changing".

      I have no idea what that means, but it suggests (to me) that their job may not be secure.

      Why would they want to change from AST to Periodic - is it so they arent tied into a 6 month contract and can go anytime they please on providing 1 months notice?

      In other words, we dont have the security of a tenant in place for the next 6 months and have to "expect" to be looking for new tenants as and when it suits our current tenants.

      Paul

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by coupleuk View Post
        Why would they want to change from AST to Periodic - is it so they arent tied into a 6 month contract and can go anytime they please on providing 1 months notice?

        In other words, we dont have the security of a tenant in place for the next 6 months and have to "expect" to be looking for new tenants as and when it suits our current tenants.
        Yes, exactly. It's perfectly normal; happens all the time. Although by the same token it also means they lose security of tenure and you can give them 2 months notice to quit at any time, without giving a reason. Personally, I give my tenants the option of another 6-month AST or going periodic; usually I find they go for the latter.

        More often than not, the reason why ASTs get 'renewed' - ie, another AST issued - is when the property is managed by an agency, who push it hard, because of the extra fees it generates.

        Comment


          #5
          Thanks for the very quick replies - I feel a lot more comfortable with going Periodic now.

          It was mainly that the Agent sent the notice to our parents address so we didnt know how long ago all this happened and worried that we had missed the chance to say yes/no.

          Paul

          Comment


            #6
            The six month AST will go periodic 'all on its own' at the end of the 6 month period, without the agency having to lift a finger, or a renewal fee.

            But if your agents have already served your tenants with a Section 21 notice to end the 6 month period, as many agents do at the beginning of a tenancy, technically your tenants can leave at any time after the 6 months as they have been given notice to quit. (Also your agent can start court proceedings very quickly if you want to evict them too).

            If this is the case, your agent may want to start a fresh periodic tenancy (with no fixed term), but you will still have to wait for another period of 6 months if you needed to evict them , unless they did something to breach the tenancy. All the notice they have to give you, would be whatever is agreed in the tenancy; probably one month.
            All posts in good faith, but do not rely on them

            * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * *

            You can search the forums here:

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Bel View Post
              The six month AST will go periodic 'all on its own' at the end of the 6 month period, without the agency having to lift a finger, or a renewal fee.

              But if your agents have already served your tenants with a Section 21 notice to end the 6 month period, as many agents do at the beginning of a tenancy, technically your tenants can leave at any time after the 6 months as they have been given notice to quit. (Also your agent can start court proceedings very quickly if you want to evict them too).

              If this is the case, your agent may want to start a fresh periodic tenancy (with no fixed term), but you will still have to wait for another period of 6 months if you needed to evict them , unless they did something to breach the tenancy. All the notice they have to give you, would be whatever is agreed in the tenancy; probably one month.
              NO. The six-month rule doesn't apply to a replacement tenancy (with same property and same L & T) which follows an AST- see s.21(5)(b).
              JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
              1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
              2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
              3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
              4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
                NO. The six-month rule doesn't apply to a replacement tenancy (with same property and same L & T) which follows an AST- see s.21(5)(b).
                It's only by making mistakes that you learn
                All posts in good faith, but do not rely on them

                * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * *

                You can search the forums here:

                Comment


                  #9
                  So does this mean the S21 on the first AST still stands? or does the LL have to issue a new one?

                  Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
                  NO. The six-month rule doesn't apply to a replacement tenancy (with same property and same L & T) which follows an AST- see s.21(5)(b).
                  Any information or opinion given in this post is based only on my personal experience, what I have learned from this, other boards and elsewhere. It is not to be relied on. Definitive advice is only available from a Solicitor or other appropriately qualified person. E&OE

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Section 21 is tenancy-specific. Remember that it's not a notice to quit nor a notice of termination- it's a notice that L intends to apply for possession unless T vacates. Read s.21(1)(a) carefully- Court has to be "satisfied that the AST has come to an end and no further [fixed-term AST] is ...in existence"; replacement tenancy would conflict with this, as s.21 notice served in respect of original AST.

                    Old tenancy ends. New one starts. New s.21 therefore required, surely.
                    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                    Comment


                      #11
                      If landlords don't invoke their intention to seek possession within a reasonable period from when it becomes effective having served a S.21 Notice on the tenant, it is more than likely to be considered by a judge to be invalid the longer it goes on. After all, what is the point in serving such a notice (seeking possession) if you don't do exactly that?
                      The advice I give should not be construed as a definitive answer, and is without prejudice or liability. You are advised to consult a specialist solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Paul_f View Post
                        If landlords don't invoke their intention to seek possession within a reasonable period from when it becomes effective having served a S.21 Notice on the tenant, it is more than likely to be considered by a judge to be invalid the longer it goes on. After all, what is the point in serving such a notice (seeking possession) if you don't do exactly that?
                        Maybe; or else s.21 just reserves L's right to possession if T remains but it doesn't oblige L to compel T to go.
                        JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                        1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                        2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                        3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                        4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                        Comment


                          #13
                          In August, we had a letter from our Agent asking if they could issue a new 6 month AST for the tenants from Sept 29th.

                          We replied, Yes.

                          Only now (November) - we have had the letter stating the AST is coming to an end and asking if we will switch to Periodic.

                          But, if a new AST was issued on Sept 29th it wouldnt be due to end until March next year.

                          Having emailed the Agent, it seems the tenants are ALREADY on a Periodic anyway.

                          Is it time we ditched this Agent as they dont seem to know what they are doing, or are doing their own thing and then asking our permission after the event.

                          Advice please ?

                          Paul

                          PS If things turn out badly with this tenant (cost or damage etc), would we have any financial claim against the Agent for "doing it their way" - and if so, would it be thru the small claim court or ARLA etc. Hopefully, it wont get that way.

                          PPS If we issue a 2 month notice for the Tenant to vacate on January 29th, can they afterward then just give us 1 month and go sooner ie December 29th? ie we wouldnt want the place empty over Christmas as it would be difficult to re-let at that time.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Do take care about the possibility of agent already issuing a Section 21 notice. In order to protect yourself from your tenant just leaving (which they could if they'd had a properly issued S21) I suggest you write a letter to them that specifically cancels any Section 21 notice which they may have received during the term of the AST. Don't even rely on what the agent tells you, sounds like they don't really have a grasp on what they're doing with your property.

                            From your last post, sounds like your agents don't really know what they're doing on this one (me? surprised? Nah.) so you need to ascertain whether the new tenancy in August was ever issued. It's possible they've mixed you up with someone else, or that they 'forgot' to issue the new AST, or they HAVE issued it but just forgot to do it properly.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I can't figure your dates out here. On one hand we have the tenants have been paying the rent for the last 5 months without problems indicating that the tenancy started in July, (July-Nov is five months). On the other hand we have the tenancy ending on Sept 28th indicating that the tenancy started on March 29th.

                              It does sound like someone is mixing up two lots of tenants.

                              Even you are confused, how can a six month AST that ended on Sept 28th be due to end shortly? What date did the tenancy actually start?
                              ~~~~~

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