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  • S21

    Hi all
    I doing an S21 for a tenant
    He moved in on the 1st June 2011
    Whats the earliest date the S21 should expire?
    Thanks

  • #2
    OK, I'm a relative novice but I think I have a pretty good understanding of this area (and if I get it wrong then I'm sure someone will correct me), so here goes:

    Firstly, a S21 doesn't expire unless you get the tenant to start a new tenancy agreement after the initial AST. If you just let the tenancy carry on and become a statutory periodic tenancy then the S21 remains valid and can be enforced whenever you like (with appropriate notice). I've been advised that you should always serve a S21 2-3 months before the end of an AST, just to cover your own back, even if you don't actually want the tenant to leave. (I haven't followed this advice myself yet, largely because I want my tenants, who are lovely, to stay for as long as possible, and I'm a little anxious that they might be offended by the serving of a S21.)

    Anyway, assuming that it's a 6-month AST and that the rent is due on the 1st of the month, the original term would end on 30th Nov/1st Dec (depending on whether the tenancy started at midnight or noon on the 1st). However, you have to serve the S21 at least two months prior to that date so you've missed the deadline and hence cannot end the tenancy until the next rent payment falls due, i.e. 31st Dec/1st Jan. In order to do that, you need to make sure that the notice is served by 31st Oct at the latest.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by lynneinjapan View Post
      OK, I'm a relative novice but I think I have a pretty good understanding of this area (and if I get it wrong then I'm sure someone will correct me), so here goes:

      Firstly, a S21 doesn't expire unless you get the tenant to start a new tenancy agreement after the initial AST. If you just let the tenancy carry on and become a statutory periodic tenancy then the S21 remains valid and can be enforced whenever you like (with appropriate notice). I've been advised that you should always serve a S21 2-3 months before the end of an AST, just to cover your own back, even if you don't actually want the tenant to leave. (I haven't followed this advice myself yet, largely because I want my tenants, who are lovely, to stay for as long as possible, and I'm a little anxious that they might be offended by the serving of a S21.)

      Anyway, assuming that it's a 6-month AST and that the rent is due on the 1st of the month, the original term would end on 30th Nov/1st Dec (depending on whether the tenancy started at midnight or noon on the 1st). However, you have to serve the S21 at least two months prior to that date so you've missed the deadline and hence cannot end the tenancy until the next rent payment falls due, i.e. 31st Dec/1st Jan. In order to do that, you need to make sure that the notice is served by 31st Oct at the latest.
      Not exactly. I think in the case of a section 21, (1)(b) only 2 months notice needs to be given - I cannot see any reference to the end of a period as is the case with a Section 21 (4)(a) - the notice simply needs to expire giving at least 2 months notice.
      [I]The opinions I give are simply my opinions and interpretations of what I have learnt, in numerous years as a property professional, I would not rely upon them without consulting with a paid advisor and providing them with all the relevant facts[I]

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      • #4
        Originally posted by medlock View Post
        I doing an S21 for a tenant
        He moved in on the 1st June 2011
        Whats the earliest date the S21 should expire?
        It depends on when the fixed term expires. And if the fixed term has already expired we also need to know the frequency with which rent is payable.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by lynneinjapan View Post
          Anyway, assuming that it's a 6-month AST and that the rent is due on the 1st of the month, the original term would end on 30th Nov/1st Dec (depending on whether the tenancy started at midnight or noon on the 1st).
          It would be highly inadvisable for any landlord to create a fixed term commencing at noon.

          However, you have to serve the S21 at least two months prior to that date so you've missed the deadline and hence cannot end the tenancy until the next rent payment falls due, i.e. 31st Dec/1st Jan.
          No.

          If a s.21 notice is served during the fixed term, it need only give T at least two months, and cannot expire before the end of the fixed term. It does not have to expire at the end of a tenancy period (N.B. not the same as a rental period); this only applies to s.21 notices served during a periodic tenancy. Assuming the fixed term does expire on 30th November, then if LL served notice today, 11th October, the earliest the notice could expire would be "after 11th December 2011".

          Nor does the s.21 notice "end the tenancy" at notice expiry. It merely entitles the LL to apply for possession after notice expiry.

          See section 21 - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/50/section/21
          and section 5(2) - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/50/section/5

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          • #6
            2 Full Calender Months

            If i expire the s21 2 months and 1 day from today, would this give 2 months notice? (expiration 12th Dec 2010)

            Or because the tenancy starts on the 1st June, would i have to give 2 full calender months notice?

            Thereby meaning expiration would be the 2nd January 2012

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            • #7
              Originally posted by medlock View Post
              If i expire the s21 2 months and 1 day from today, would this give 2 months notice? (expiration 12th Dec 2010)

              Or because the tenancy starts on the 1st June, would i have to give 2 full calender months notice?

              Thereby meaning expiration would be the 2nd January 2012
              See post #4.

              When does the fixed term expire?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by medlock View Post
                If i expire the s21 2 months and 1 day from today, would this give 2 months notice? (expiration 12th Dec 2010)

                Or because the tenancy starts on the 1st June, would i have to give 2 full calender months notice?

                Thereby meaning expiration would be the 2nd January 2012
                This depends on the date of service. If the date of service is within the fixed term then the expiry date is the later of:
                - 2 months after the day of service
                - last day of the fixed term

                If the date of service is after the end of the fixed term, then you must give a minimum of 2 months notice and the 'expiry date' must be the last day of a tenancy period.

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                • #9
                  So going back to my post

                  Its a 6 month contract, expiring the 1st Dec 2010

                  So giving 2 months notice is fine right? I'm sure i read on here somewhere that we have to give 2 calender months

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by medlock View Post
                    So going back to my post

                    Its a 6 month contract, expiring the 1st Dec 2010

                    So giving 2 months notice is fine right? I'm sure i read on here somewhere that we have to give 2 calender months
                    If tenant moved in 1 June for 6 months, expiry would be 30 Nov. Does the agreement specifically say that the end date is 1st December?

                    Either way, a section 21(1)(b) notice served before 4:30 today would expire "after 13th December 2011".

                    If served after 4:30 it counts as the following day for service
                    You don't count the day of service in the 2 months
                    The period end does not matter for a s21(1)(b).
                    a court shall make an order for possession of the dwelling-house if it is satisfied— . . . (b)the landlord or, in the case of joint landlords, at least one of them has given to the tenant not less than two months’ notice in writing stating that he requires possession of the dwelling-house.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by medlock View Post
                      So going back to my post

                      Its a 6 month contract, expiring the 1st Dec 2010

                      So giving 2 months notice is fine right? I'm sure i read on here somewhere that we have to give 2 calender months
                      A s.21(1)(b) notice must give at least two calendar months, as from the date of deemed service.

                      If you deliver by hand on a business day before 4.30pm, the notice is deemed served that day.
                      If delivered after 4.30pm or at the weekend, the notice is deemed served on the next business day.
                      If the notice is posted first class, the notice is deemed served two business days later.
                      (A business day is Mon-Fri, excluding Bank Holidays)

                      So, work out when the notice will be deemed served, and add (at least) two months from that date; e.g. if deemed served on 17th October, then the earliest expiry would be "after 17th December 2011".

                      Don't write a date of service on the notice, just get evidence of service (take a witness if delivering by hand, or get a free certificate of posting).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Ok, ive just done it

                        I've allowed a few extra days for postage

                        Expires after the 15th Dec 2011

                        Comment

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