My tenant's in arrears with rent and all utilities too

[elle1]

Sharing the property

Papers are being served today, and we're giving notice to carry out an inspection in a few days time.

However, I have since found out that there is somebody else living at the property - his girlfriend I believe.

He is the only one named on the lease, what should I do about this, if I can do anything?

[elle1]

Thank you everybody.

I realise that I come across as completely incompetent, I will endeavour to familirise myself with the rules.

[Surrey]

Can someone please create a stamp for me that says:

Read the Civil Procedure Rules. http://www.dca.gov.uk/civil/procrules_fin/index.htm

Elle, the Section 21 notice is, in effect, the letter you want to write to your tenant to tell them that the tenancy will not be renewed, that he must move out at the end of the term and that if he doesn't move out you will seek legal redress to make him move out.

As a new landlord you really should familiarise yourself with the rules you are expected to adhere to if you're contemplating court action. I won't hide my feelings about courts (can't abide them!) but if you are going to use the system you do need to understand it better than you appear to. Read Part 55 of the rules, that's the bit that covers reposession of residential properties. That'll give you a start though if you do go to court you'll need to read the rest of the rules as well.

[pippay]

PLEASE NOTE:: He meant 10th December NOT 19th ..

Elle 1
If your 12 month AST commenced say 10 February, 2006, it will end on the 9th February, 2007. You should serve the S21(1)(b) Notice on or before the 19th of December and date it so that it expires "after the 9th February, 2007". You may as well serve the Notice now.
Your best course of action is surely to apply maximum legal pressure - so fill in the forms while you're in the mood.

[johnjw]

Questions from a new landlord

Elle 1
If your 12 month AST commenced say 10 February, 2006, it will end on the 9th February, 2007. You should serve the S21(1)(b) Notice on or before the 19th of December and date it so that it expires "after the 9th February, 2007". You may as well serve the Notice now.
Your best course of action is surely to apply maximum legal pressure - so fill in the forms while you're in the mood.

[elle1]

And also when I have issued the S21, does that mean the tenant has 2 months from the date of the letter, to move, or he has to move out at the end of the tenancy?

I was going to use this form http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/pdf/Section21Notice.pdf

The date of expiry was worrying me, because everybody has said in this thread already make sure you word it correctly and use the right dates!

I think I might go for issuing a S8 too. I'm in a legal mood tody

[elle1]

Can I use the downloadable Section 21 & Section 28 forms on this site?

Apart from filling them in, is there anything else I need to go?

Sorry, it's like a new langugage to me!

[Ericthelobster]

My other half wants to hang on until the end of the tenancy in Feb. In the vague hope that the tenant will pay something and clear the arrears. We're a bit worried that if we start issuing S8 and S21 notices that he will just do a bunk, after all he has paid some of his rent, if late.

Well in your own words: "...in the vague hope..." - I think as a business decision, you're making the wrong one, but that's your choice. If you serve the S8, it does at least show you mean business and that you won't be walked over. And if he does quit, TBH consider you might be better off in the long run if he stays indefinitely without paying any more rent: bear in mind that the worst-case scenario is that if he puts his mind to it, he could stay for months to come, rent-free, before the (expensive) legal process gets him out. (When my current errant tenant was approaching 2 months arrears - with no job and no prospect of paying me back - I went round to see her and told her that I'd be serving the S8 next week, OR I'd pay her £500 cash to be out by the weekend, no strings attached. She declined unfortunately, and the way things are going, instead I'm likely to end up 4-5 months rent out of pocket before I finally get her out.)

If we do this, and let the tenancy run its course, can I just send him a letter saying that his tenancy is up in Feb and he will be unable to renew it?

No. For it to have legal standing, you must serve an S21 - it's just a simple one-page form (but make sure you get the wording and dates 100% correct!). That needs to be served at least 2 months before the end of the tenancy; if he doesn't move out at the end you can then apply to the courts immediately.

I think in your situation it would have been good to have got the S21 served at the start of the tenancy (and you could have decided whether or not to action it later), then it wouldn't be an issue now.

[elle1]

Thanks everyone.

Now last question, promise!

My other half wants to hang on until the end of the tenancy in Feb. In the vague hope that the tenant will pay something and clear the arrears. We're a bit worried that if we start issuing S8 and S21 notices that he will just do a bunk, after all he has paid some of his rent, if late.

If we do this, and let the tenancy run its course, can I just send him a letter saying that his tenancy is up in Feb and he will be unable to renew it?

[Ericthelobster]

You say that he is about 1.5. months in arrears already? If he doesn't pay this month's that would make it 2.5 months? so you would be able to serve the notice then and hope that he doesn't pay just enough to take him under the 2 months at the time of the hearing. If he was up on the law and a bit clever, he could get away with paying 3 weeks rent and stay under the 2 months required arrears.

This was almost exactly the situation I was in. But the way I saw it, if the tenant was 'clever' enough to reduce the arrears to under 2 months at the time of the hearing, then that was fine by me - at least I would be being paid. Otherwise the arrears would be 4 months (a lot more than the £150 court fee). And it certainly wouldn't stop me from evicting via S21 as soon as I was able.

The other point to note about issuing an S8 is that it includes a claim for arrears, so if the court finds in your favour, your tenant gets a court order to pay the arrears and ultimately a CCJ. Via S21, you have to do that separately (as I understand it - but I'm only a month or so further down the line than you in this process!)

[Surrey]

Yes, do serve a Section 21 notice, but be very careful that you put the correct dates on your notice, as if you get it wrong you could find yourself with a void notice and a tenant still in place. Search for the following phrase, but without the carriage returns (put in to avoid THIS thread also coming up in searches)
"Sword
of
Damocles"
You could go blind reading all the threads!

You should also serve S8 once he's 2 months late, with grounds 8, 10 and 11.

Note that ISSUING THE NOTICE doesn't cost you anything, so issue both, it's just taking the subsequent court action that costs.

[P.Pilcher]

Irrespective of when or if you decide to serve a section 8 notice, you must also serve a section 21 notice. This has no effect on a section 8 procedure, but is technically the only absolutely certain way of getting a tenant out. This is because a landlord does not have to give a reason for wanting his property back. It would now appear to be possible to do this on line which should speed things up a bit, however the notice period is a minimum of two months, so you need to act as soon as possible so that you can start court action as soon as the fixed period of the AST ends.

P.P.

[pippay]

From my understanding only, you cannot issue a S8 until the tenant is at least 2 months in arrears at the time of serving the notice and you won't get a judgement unless he is 2 months in arrears at the time of the hearing.

You say that he is about 1.5. months in arrears already? If he doesn't pay this month's that would make it 2.5 months? so you would be able to serve the notice then and hope that he doesn't pay just enough to take him under the 2 months at the time of the hearing. If he was up on the law and a bit clever, he could get away with paying 3 weeks rent and stay under the 2 months required arrears.

Have you calculated EXACTLY how much he does owe? I think it would be a useful exercise for you, while we wait for more knowledgable posters to give their views and opinions or indeed correct me if I am wrong.

Thank you everybody for all your help.

Another couple of questions, sorry!

The tenant in question (grrr, shakes fist) owed for July and for last month - although he has paid just a little less than half of July back to us over the last few months - which would mean that he is not 2 months in arrears, more likely 1.5 months in arrears. Does this mean that I cannot serve a S8?

If this is the case, and then the tenant does not pay this month, due on the 26th, this would officially make it 2 months in arrears, how long do I have to wait before I can serve a S8?

[elle1]

Thank you everybody for all your help.

Another couple of questions, sorry!

The tenant in question (grrr, shakes fist) owed for July and for last month - although he has paid just a little less than half of July back to us over the last few months - which would mean that he is not 2 months in arrears, more likely 1.5 months in arrears. Does this mean that I cannot serve a S8?

If this is the case, and then the tenant does not pay this month, due on the 26th, this would officially make it 2 months in arrears, how long do I have to wait before I can serve a S8?

[johnjw]

Questions from a new Landlord

February is quite a long time away. I'd certainly go along with Erics advice to go for a Possession Order via Section 8. Unfortunately it is the Possession Order and not "possession", which is mandatory providing there are 2 months rent arrears. However that will be a start and the best you can do in the circumstances.