Entry into property - can landlord/agent enter if tenant forbids us?

[jjlandlord]

If a tenant/owner has a legal right to refuse them access, then how does a clause in a tenancy agreement give a LL access?

What I gather:
If LL enters without T's permission he is trespassing, which is actually not a crime (learned that recently).
If tenancy agreement gives LL permission right to enter, then he cannot be trespassing if he does.

Agree with LC (unless T has written refusing, clearly...).

But if permission to enter is granted in tenancy agreement, is T entitled to later refuse, be it in writing or otherwise?

[theartfullodger]

What I gather:
If LL enters without T's permission he is trespassing, which is actually not a crime (learned that recently).
If tenancy agreement gives LL permission right to enter, then he cannot be trespassing if he does.



But if permission to enter is granted in tenancy agreement, is T entitled to later refuse, be it in writing or otherwise?

Trespassing yes, but I suspect the big danger is PfEa 1977
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1977/43/section/1

(3A)Subject to subsection (3B) below, the landlord of a residential occupier or an agent of the landlord shall be guilty of an offence if—
(a)he does acts likely to interfere with the peace or comfort of the residential occupier or members of his household, or
(b)he persistently withdraws or withholds services reasonably required for the occupation of the premises in question as a residence,and (in either case) he knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, that that conduct is likely to cause the residential occupier to give up the occupation of the whole or part of the premises or to refrain from exercising any right or pursuing any remedy in respect of the whole or part of the premises.

And if T refuses I'd understood there are two competing claims and LL is v strongly advised not to enter unless with court order..

[45002]

Anyone can knock up a tenancy agreement using word and be meaningless when a solicitor or barrister tears it apart in court..........

[Lawcruncher]

Anyone can knock up a tenancy agreement using word and be meaningless when a solicitor or barrister tears it apart in court..........

True.

The question still remains: If in a tenancy agreement a tenant agrees that the landlord may enter for a specific purpose what is the authority for saying that that agreement is unenforceable?

[45002]

Lets put it this way

Tenants and landlords both have the right to Privacy.

Tenant refuses permission to LL and ES,LL and ES take No notice of T and let them selves in while T is out and have a good nose around in T home.

Would a LL or EA be happy to let a tenant/stranger nosing around there Home while there out,would LL or EA give sets of keys to Tenants !

LL rent a home to T,LL must respect T right to refuse Entry to there home.

[45002]

OK

My tenancy is Regulated by 1977 rent act,I have refused to sign any tenancy agreement and im on my 3rd LL.

Some years ago,I found my original LL sitting on my bed,reading a book of mine after I came back from shopping,when I channelled him he said it's my bloody house,I can do what I like if you dont like it you can get out,I told him to get out of my home.

I was so mad I contacted the police and they adversed me to contact my local council as the police said,there not much they could do,unless a LL stole or damaged T belongings.

The private tenancy department of my local council came to see me,as I still was some what upset at my LL actions.

They advised me to change the locks,which I did they also wrote to my LL and gave him a official warning via councils solicitor.

The official warning contained,it is a criminal offence to threat a T with illegal eviction,LL had breach my right to privacy,as LL had no automatic right of entry to T home.

My old LL wrote back saying there a TA and so on,saying LL could go in with 24hrs notice.

As I said I refused to sign any TA,Council solicitor wrote back to old LL informing him even if T had signed TA,T can still refuse entry to LL and it would be unenforceable in law,if LL went to court to enforce his rights as it would breach a T rights to privacy,regardless of the type of Tenancy.

When old LL sold up,I sort legal advice from a solicitor about my rights during and after the sale and showed them the letters from Council solicitors.

They said same thing,if a T had signed TA giving LL right to enter after 24 hrs notice,it would be unenforceable in law as it would breach T rights to privacy on any type of Tenancy.

There further advised me,there nothing in law for a LL to enforce there right of entry to T home,during a tenancy..

Only way a LL could enforce entry to T home,to break in! or bring a test case in the high court !

I refused to show EA around and buyers around my home during the sale,the sale took 2 years 45% was knocked off the sale price.

Just to point out I always co operated with my all LL's gas/electric and fire inspection with at least 48 hours notice and a time convent to me,I pay my rent on time and the only spare set of keys to my home are with my next of kin...

[Lawcruncher]

Lets put it this way

Tenants and landlords both have the right to Privacy.

Tenant refuses permission to LL and ES,LL and ES take No notice of T and let them selves in while T is out and have a good nose around in T home.

Would a LL or EA be happy to let a tenant/stranger nosing around there Home while there out,would LL or EA give sets of keys to Tenants !

LL rent a home to T,LL must respect T right to refuse Entry to there home.

Of course a tenant is entitled to his privacy and any rights of access must be exercised reasonably, but you are missing the point which is that a tenant agrees to allow access.

Perhaps I can make my point by asking if there is any qualitative difference between:

1. A tenant signing an agreement saying the landlord can have access on 24 hours notice.

2. A tenant signing an agreement saying the landlord can have access on a specified date in the future.

3. A tenant agreeing on Monday that the landlord can have access on Wednesday.

[Lawcruncher]

OK etc

First, there is no doubt that landlords only have a right of access for the purposes set out in the tenancy agreement (and do not forget that some are implied by law).

At the expense of repeating what is in the long thread now a sticky, there are the following possibilities:

1. You have a right but the manner in which the right can be exercised is circumscribed by law. The right to forfeit tenancies comes into this category.

2. You can apply to the court for a right but until the court grants it to you do not have it. A right under the Access to Neighbouring Land Act comes into this category.

3. You have a right which you are entitled to exercise without the permission of the court. A right of way comes into this category.

A landlord's right of entry must come into category 3 because, apart from anything else, such rights are granted by statute and because there is no statute which specifically circumscribes the right, although the Protection from Eviction Act may come into play.

My main purpose in questioning what appears to be accepted by many is not to give comfort to landlords (I am on record as saying that it is unwise for a landlord to enter when a tenant objects) but rather to make it clear to tenants that, until the courts declare otherwise, they should not assume they can refuse entry with impunity.

[45002]

Yes your Right,your posts are far too long http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...682#post196682

and

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...683#post196683

And Are only your opinion.................

I beg to differ with point 1,especially with AT,SAT,RT and secure council and housing association tenants.

Point 2 and point 3,would only be confirmed or not,via a channelled in the High Court.

And this is my opinion,referring to written and verbal advice I had from 2 different solicitors.

Think we Both said enough on this now

Good night...................