Witness Statement for rent payment date

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    #16
    Originally posted by westminster View Post
    I doubt it's a very good idea to come across as trying to score points against the judge. Just do what the judge has asked. End of.
    Not to 'score points', just stating legal fact that the tenancy period as stated in the AST is the relevant legal fact, not the rent payment date.

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      #17
      Originally posted by westminster View Post
      No, they are not, and making such remarks isn't funny or clever.
      Not all I agree, they are human beings, but some judges are just pedantic, finnicky, and downright anal about the way they want things phrased. I sent a letter to the judge confirming the rent payment date, but apparently this is 'not acceptable' as I stated above. That's anal in my non-legal opinion!

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        #18
        "The first day of the tenancy was 19/07/2009. It specifically says the rent is payable in advance. I said in my letter to the judge that the rent is due on the 19th of each calendar month - but apparently (see above) he cannot accept my letter as evidence of this rent payment date.

        The tenancy agreement I used was the Residential Landlords Association AST (2004 updated). In the original letter the judge wanted a 'Witness Statement' to confirm clause B1 in this agreement."

        Kaya your letter has not been accepted as evidence and the AST clause B1 only says "B1: You must do the following: - Pay the rent on the days and in the way we have agreed" How is the Judge to know what was agreed?
        In this case, you are the Witness, no-one else required.
        Google CPR32 for info un how to format with correct phraseology. (Not accessed this Forum's document)

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          #19
          Mariner! I don't understand what the problem is either I assume that because my letter wasn't phrased in the 'correct' way that is was not accepted. I have now rephrased my letter according to the template witness statement on this site and posted it to the judge, along with a covering letter stating that the rent payment date is not relevant in any case, only the tenancy period (which is contained in the AST doument he already has).

          Like I said, I believe it's all delaying tactics, as the council will have to rehome my tenants once they are evicted. The council and the courts are in regular contact that is a fact.

          Kaya x

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            #20
            Originally posted by Kaya View Post
            Not to 'score points', just stating legal fact that the tenancy period as stated in the AST is the relevant legal fact, not the rent payment date.
            I agree with Westminster - the judge will not make his decision based on your knowledge or otherwise of the legal requirements, it is just going to rub him up the wrong way. Provide what he wants, and hope you get a different judge if you have to do this again.

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by Kaya View Post
              Not to 'score points', just stating legal fact that the tenancy period as stated in the AST is the relevant legal fact, not the rent payment date.
              Don't be disingenuous. When you said:

              Originally posted by Kaya View Post
              Judges are all @$$#0l£$....I'll show him!
              you clearly meant you wanted to score points against the judge.

              The fact is that you failed to follow the requirements of the Civil Procedure Rules, and were politely asked to comply. It's nothing to get worked up about.

              I also disagree that it's 'obvious' that the rent is payable on the 19th of the month, if all the contract says is "Pay the rent on the days and in the way we have agreed". How does that state the tenancy period?

              Just because the contract starts on the 19th of the month, it doesn't follow that rent is payable monthly on the 19th, it could easily be payable weekly, quarterly, etc. So the judge's question is perfectly reasonable if the s.21 notice was served when the tenancy was periodic - was it? - because he'd need to know the frequency with which rent is payable.

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                #22
                Originally posted by Kaya View Post
                Not all I agree, they are human beings, but some judges are just pedantic, finnicky, and downright anal about the way they want things phrased. I sent a letter to the judge confirming the rent payment date, but apparently this is 'not acceptable' as I stated above. That's anal in my non-legal opinion!
                The Civil Procedure Rules are there for a reason, not just to be 'anal'. Your attitude is naive and childish.

                If, for example, the court accepted your letter (which didn't conform to the requirements of CPR) as evidence, and proceeded to grant a possession order against the Tenant, the T could, in theory, challenge the ruling on this point of law, that the ruling was based on impermissible evidence under CPR. Potentially, then, the T could get the possession order set aside and you'd be back to where you started. Do you see the point now?

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                  #23
                  Well I have now provided that fact (rent payment date) on an official witness form.
                  The thing is do you just bend over and take it as a LL?
                  As a LL you have rights also, judges should not be able to just trample all over them and insist on documents which are not required by law.
                  In my case, why does the judge think the rent payment date significant in any case, when the tenancy period clearly states in the AST is from the 19th July 2009?

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Kaya View Post
                    In my case, why does the judge think the rent payment date significant in any case, when the tenancy period clearly states in the AST is from the 19th July 2009?
                    I think you may be confusing 'fixed term' and 'tenancy period'.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by westminster View Post
                      The Civil Procedure Rules are there for a reason, not just to be 'anal'. Your attitude is naive and childish.

                      If, for example, the court accepted your letter (which didn't conform to the requirements of CPR) as evidence, and proceeded to grant a possession order against the Tenant, the T could, in theory, challenge the ruling on this point of law, that the ruling was based on impermissible evidence under CPR. Potentially, then, the T could get the possession order set aside and you'd be back to where you started. Do you see the point now?
                      In your world this case would be settled. In the real world us landlords have to pay our mortgages, and if tenants don't pay rent then we have a problem! To evict takes too long via the courts, the only means of recourse we have (other than sending the boys round) which we would not want do do in any case. Courts DO use delaying tactics when they have no legal right to do so, trading on the ignorance of landlords. Don't tell me otherwise.
                      Last edited by Moderator2; 19-08-2011, 19:15 PM. Reason: Offensive language

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                        #26
                        Flipping 'eck you're quick off the mark Mod2
                        I offer no guarantee that anything I say is correct. wysiwyg

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Well done Mod 2 - I reported this and by the time I got back here to respond to OP, you have edited it!

                          I suggest we all let Kaya get on without interuption - she obviously doesn't need the forums help anymore.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            It is now a periodic tenancy, the 'fixed term' having expired in 2010. The 'tenancy period' in law though, is normally based on the original fixed term of the tenancy agreement. That is just a fact.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by Kaya View Post
                              It is now a periodic tenancy, the 'fixed term' having expired in 2010. The 'tenancy period' in law though, is normally based on the original fixed term of the tenancy agreement. That is just a fact.
                              I'm making posts I never would have thought of! Thanks mods and for deleting my obscene language
                              Last edited by Moderator2; 20-08-2011, 07:46 AM. Reason: More offensive comments

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
                                Well done Mod 2 - I reported this and by the time I got back here to respond to OP, you have edited it!

                                I suggest we all let Kaya get on without interuption - she obviously doesn't need the forums help anymore.
                                Yes of course I need your help! Don't now desert me in my hour of need

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