tennant's notice to quit question...

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    #16
    Surely a judgement from 1947 (Crate & Miller) would be overidden by later Statutes if precise dates are specified therein?
    I would send an amended Notice for the 14th with a covering letter saying 'Further to my earlier Notice dated xx mmm, I realise I may have accidently quoted a wrong Termination date which should be 14 Sept. An amended Notice is attached.
    I confirm I will vacate <address> on 14 Sep 2011.'

    Don't send Registered or Recorded as it may not be 'delivered' if no one is in to sign and may be returned. Use First Class mail with free Cert of Postage and hand in at PO Counter. Normal 1st class mail is deemed delivered 2 working days after date of posting.

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      #17
      Originally posted by mariner View Post
      Surely a judgement from 1947 (Crate & Miller) would be overidden by later Statutes if precise dates are specified therein?
      ......
      Dunno, but I was quoting from Nick Madge's authoritative "Housing Case Lawbook", 2008 edition, see...

      http://www.amazon.co.uk/Housing-Law-.../dp/1903307457

      which btw has a search-able CD version in the back..

      As with all these rules/laws/guidelines it comes down to what the Judge decides if & when it comes to court, and Judges can give, er, "surprising" decisions...
      I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

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        #18
        Apart from the Protection from Eviction Act 1977 I am not aware of any statute passed since 1947 that alters the common law relating to notices to quit.

        The belief that an NTQ should expire on the last day of a tenancy period can only have come about because of the wording of section 21(4)(a) HA 1988 - which of course only applies to notices served under section 21(4).

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          #19
          Originally posted by Lawcruncher View Post
          The belief that an NTQ should expire on the last day of a tenancy period can only have come about because of the wording of section 21(4)(a) HA 1988 - which of course only applies to notices served under section 21(4).
          My take on this:
          There is no restriction on the date one puts in the NTQ.
          But as the tenancy runs from period to period, the tenancy will only end at the end of a period (unless the tenant comes to an agreement to the contrary with his landlord).
          Hence a NTQ will only become effective at the end of a tenancy period.

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            #20
            Originally posted by jjlandlord View Post
            My take on this:
            There is no restriction on the date one puts in the NTQ.
            But as the tenancy runs from period to period, the tenancy will only end at the end of a period (unless the tenant comes to an agreement to the contrary with his landlord).
            Hence a NTQ will only become effective at the end of a tenancy period.
            But the point is not when a tenancy period ends - it clearly must end at the end of a tenancy period - but whether a notice to quit that purports to take effect on the first day of a tenancy period is valid. The answer is that it does because the courts have said that it does. Period.

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              #21
              Swarb's nutshell version of Crate -v- Miller [1947] 1 KB 946:
              "A weekly tenancy which begins on Saturday may be determined validly by notice to quit either on Friday or Saturday. Both are equally intimations that tenant is to quit when the current period ends."

              I found, in Sourcebook on Land Law, S.H. Goo, 2002: "A notice [served by T] to terminate a periodic tenancy can be given to take effect either on the last day of the term or the anniversary of its commencement date, in either case the tenancy would end on the last day of the term".
              For this, it cites, as well as Crate v Miller, Sidebotham v Holland (1895] 1QB 378.

              (I also found reference, elsewhere, to Para 17.255 Woodfall Landlord and Tenant; so if anyone has a copy...)

              It seems to me that this relates to the difficulty of expressing the expiry date of a notice ending on the last day of a term, when days are complete days from midnight to midnight. For landlords, this is solved in a s.21(4)(a) notice by the wording "after [dd/mm/yy]". For tenants, it's accepted that their notice is valid if it expires on the last or the first day of a term. But it's important to note the bit in bold above. I think it would be highly advisable for OP to vacate on 14th September (as I said in post #12).

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                #22
                Originally posted by Bonacate View Post
                about my notice... the fixed term commenced on 15th Nov 2010
                the term was 6 months and 'end' date specified: the 14th May 2011
                I posted notice by registered special delivery on 6th Aug
                to terminate the tenancy on 15th Sept 2011
                Bonacate: Just to clarify, your notice *is* valid, but you should vacate on 14th September, not 15th, because your tenancy will end at midnight of 14th September.

                If the LL were to bring a claim against you for rent in lieu of notice, then all you have to do is say that you gave valid notice to quit, the tenancy ended on 14th September so no further rent is due, and cite Crate -v- Miller [1947] 1 KB 946 in your defence.

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by westminster View Post
                  For tenants, it's accepted that their notice is valid if it expires on the last or the first day of a term. But it's important to note the bit in bold above.
                  That's the point I was trying to make: I don't think that having another date in the notice makes the notice invalid, it just makes the notice actually take effect (ie. determine the tenancy) at the earliest possible occasion following that date.

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                    #24
                    once again many thanks for all advises..
                    there're much helpful,
                    just to submit..
                    on my Deposit Protection Certificate the date of Fixed Term AST stays as 14 May 2011,
                    but...
                    I've once again checked what my AST says itself and there's:
                    'Commencing on 15th November 2010 and expiring on 15th May 2011'

                    I'm sorry for the little confusion, but I feel confused myself too...

                    please below the body of the notice I've already sent:

                    'I hereby give one month written notice to terminate the tenancy of the above property on Thursday 15/09/2011.

                    I undertake to carry out the general cleaning to leave the room in the proper condition.
                    I will do any necessary cleaning of all the appliances and environment I was using or sharing.

                    I will remove all items of my personal belongings from the property by the termination date.
                    I will return all keys to the property no later than 12.00 noon on 15/09/2011.

                    I would appreciate the return of my security deposit within 30 days after I have vacated my apartment.
                    The bank account number for the return of my security deposit is:
                    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
                    If you have any questions, please phone me at xxxxxxxxxxxxx
                    Your sincerely
                    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx'

                    Comment

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