tennant's notice to quit question...

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    tennant's notice to quit question...

    My fixed term Assured Shorthold Tennancy Agreement is saying as follows:
    "[...]either the tenant or the landlord must give minimum of two calendar months notice after the expiration of the first four months of TERMINATION of the tenancy and may not take place before a minimum tenancy period of six months." my question is if this quotation is written properly using the word TERMINATION? Shouldn't it be rather FROM BEGINNING
    This might suggest that after fixed term agreement terminates there's automatically new fixed term agreement arranged with the same rules...
    But there's no new agreement signed so I understand that the first fixed term agreement after 6 months just turned into the periodic one (tenancies enter a statutory periodic phase when the fixed-term ends and the landlord allows the tenancy to continue without asking the tenant to formally renew)

    If the rent is paid monthly, as I do, then the tenancy becomes a monthly statutory periodic tenancy. Here the tenant can leave with one month's notice...

    The conflict appeared as I gave 1(one)month notice to landlord that terminate my tenancy at the end of a tenancy payment period and my landlord refused to accept this and insists that I must give notice at least of 2(two)months.

    I hold that when there's no new agreement signed, the fixed term tenancy (terminated in May) already turned into periodic one.

    Can someone explaine how should I interpretate the above quotation (with capital TERMINATION)? is that phrase correct?
    There are statutory basic rules that tenancy agreement cannot change or infringe....

    #2
    The LL is confused, the AST is badly drafted.
    The LL may request 2 mths notice from T (whilst periodic) but legally you need only give one mth, my AST says the same in the hope that T will give me plenty of notice - but it is not enforceable!

    The LL however MUST give you, the T, 2 mths notice.
    A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
    W.Churchill

    Comment


      #3
      OP I would suggest TERMINATION in context is a typo, it would make sense if stated as "after the expiration of the first four months of DETERMINATION of the tenancy and may not take place before a minimum tenancy period of six months."
      Determination = accepted start date of T
      An AST has a min fixed term of 6 months, said Notice could be served at any time during fixed term but cannot be effective until after end of fixed term.
      So T commenced (determined) 1 Mar fixed term ends 31 Aug
      2 month Notice should be received by 30 June to expire (become effective) on expiry of fixed term. T can leave on 31 Aug (last dayof fixed term without prior Notice) If no Notice is effective at end of fixed term and T remains in occupation to following day a SPT is automatically created with diff Notice requirements.

      Comment


        #4
        I, on the other hand, think the landlord is requesting minimum of two calendar months notice (of TERMINATION of the tenancy) after the expiration of the first four months. Essentialy a break clause which can be used after month 6 (assuming the fixed term is for 12 months).

        I agree with others, it is both badly drafted, and providing the tenancy agreement has no provision to create a contractual periodic tenancy (which would come into effect in place of a statutory periodic tenancy) then is unenforceable.

        #MARINER - no minimum term for an AST, however a landlord can not seek possession under s21 within the first 6 months.

        Comment


          #5
          The clause is so badly drafted that it is meaningless.

          Comment


            #6
            many thanks to all of you for these responses...
            so what should I do in that matter?
            I think I'll just follow my notice and leave the flat on the term I declared in it...
            and what if my landlord will still insist that this is breach of contract?
            should I go to the court then...?
            when the clause is so badly drafted and doesn't follow the statutory rights given to tenant is the contract valid at all?

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Bonacate View Post
              I hold that when there's no new agreement signed, the fixed term tenancy (terminated in May) already turned into periodic one.
              If you have an assured shorthold tenancy in England/Wales, and the fixed term expired in May, your tenancy is now periodic.

              Provisions for notice in the expired fixed term contract do not carry through into a statutory periodic tenancy (send this link to the LL - s.5(3)(e) Housing Act 1988) so it doesn't matter what the clause you quoted means; it no longer applies.

              In a statutory periodic tenancy, the tenant must give LL at least one month's notice, also expiring at the end of a tenancy period (N.B. not the same as a rental period, albeit they often coincide). The tenancy periods begin the day after the fixed term expires, and their length is based on the frequency with which rent is payable (i.e. if you pay monthly, then the periods are a month long).

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Bonacate View Post
                I think I'll just follow my notice and leave the flat on the term I declared in it...
                and what if my landlord will still insist that this is breach of contract?
                should I go to the court then...?
                Let's check that you've given the correct notice. Tell us:
                Date the fixed term commenced (dd/mm/yy)?
                Length of the term and is an 'end' date specified?
                Date you served notice or posted the notice?
                Date the notice expires?

                when the clause is so badly drafted and doesn't follow the statutory rights given to tenant is the contract valid at all?
                Yes, the contract is still valid; that clause just doesn't have any effect, that's all.

                Comment


                  #9
                  to 'westminster'... many many thanks for this link...
                  I've spent hours searching The Housing Act for these informations...
                  about my notice... the fixed term commenced on 15th Nov 2010
                  the term was 6 months and 'end' date specified: the 15th May 2011
                  I posted notice by registered special delivery on 6th Aug
                  to terminate the tenancy on 15th Sept 2011

                  Comment


                    #10
                    oops... mistake... the 'end' date specified: the 14th May 2011

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Bonacate View Post
                      to 'westminster'... many many thanks for this link...
                      I've spent hours searching The Housing Act for these informations...
                      about my notice... the fixed term commenced on 15th Nov 2010
                      the term was 6 months and 'end' date specified: the 15th May 2011
                      I posted notice by registered special delivery on 6th Aug
                      to terminate the tenancy on 15th Sept 2011
                      Originally posted by Bonacate View Post
                      oops... mistake... the 'end' date specified: the 14th May 2011
                      In that case we have a little problem...

                      Your tenancy periods run from the 15th of each month to the 14th of the next.

                      Your current tenancy period runs from the 15th of July to 14th August. Your next one will run from 15th August to 14th September. If you don't leave until 15th September then you have entered a new tenancy period - and tenancy periods come in whole months - like beans, you buy the whole tin, not just 3 beans.

                      I am not sure if it is possible to submit a replacemet notice that has you leaving on the 14th - I am sure someone else will comment.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Bonacate View Post
                        about my notice... the fixed term commenced on 15th Nov 2010
                        the term was 6 months and 'end' date specified: the 14th May 2011
                        I posted notice by registered special delivery on 6th Aug
                        to terminate the tenancy on 15th Sept 2011
                        So, the periodic tenancy commenced 15th May 2011, with tenancy periods running 15th - 14th of the month.

                        The general advice on this forum is that a T's notice should expire on the last day of a tenancy period - like the LL's s.21 notice has to. In your case, that would be 14th September, but I think you're probably okay as many maintain that T's notice to quit may expire on the first OR last day of a period (Shelter give this advice, and they are generally reliable - see http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_ad...ld_tenancies#2).

                        I would consider, however, posting another notice tomorrow, 9th August. If you post it first class with a free certificate of posting it will be deemed served on 11th August. With this notice, say you are giving notice to quit expiring on 14th September 2011, this being the last day of a period of the tenancy.

                        I say 'consider' because I'm not sure if it's a good idea to muddy the waters, when you've already served probably/possibly valid notice. Shelter's advice may be based on case law of which I'm unaware. Wait for others to comment (you have at least until Wednesday to decide, so no mad rush).

                        If you don't serve another notice, I still think it would be a good idea to vacate on 14th September, not the 15th, (just to be on the safe side), and obtain a receipt when you return the keys.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Snorkerz View Post
                          I am not sure if it is possible to submit a replacement notice that has you leaving on the 14th - I am sure someone else will comment.
                          As indeed I have, but before I saw your post.

                          I am curious as to why Shelter say first or last day - I've seen this before, and I think there must be a good reason for it, such as case law.

                          I don't see what could preclude T serving another notice. One or both of them will be valid, that much we know. If one is invalid, it has no effect if the LL doesn't accept it (which he doesn't). At the same time, I've this vague concern that a court could interpret two valid back-to-back notices as somehow creating an uncertainty etc.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by westminster View Post
                            ................ In your case, that would be 14th September, but I think you're probably okay as many maintain that T's notice to quit may expire on the first OR last day of a period (Shelter give this advice, and they are generally reliable - see http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_ad...ld_tenancies#2).

                            I would consider, however, posting another notice tomorrow, 9th August. If you post it first class with a free certificate of posting it will be deemed served on 11th August. With this notice, say you are giving notice to qui. Shelter's advice may be based on case law of which I'm unaware. Wait for others to comment (you have at least until Wednesday to decide, so no mad rush).
                            ..........
                            Think that may be
                            Crate v Miller
                            [1947]
                            NTQ may expire on last day or first day of period of tenancy

                            A notice to quit a weekly tenancy may expire either on the same day as the
                            date on which the tenancy commenced or on the day before.
                            Cheers!

                            Artful (Born 1947....)
                            I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by westminster View Post
                              I am curious as to why Shelter say first or last day - I've seen this before, and I think there must be a good reason for it, such as case law.
                              I believ it is hidden somewhere in obscure statute - Lawcruncher told me a few weeks ago, but I have forgotten now. I will try to dig that out for reference. I would still stick with 'last day' though as apart from shelter (who I agree are reliable) that seems to be popular opinion and likely to be the landlords understanding of the situation.

                              Comment

                              Latest Activity

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X