Fatal consequences in Corfu

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Fatal consequences in Corfu

    I felt absolute horror followed by anger when I learned that the family in Corfu were poisoned by carbon monoxide from a faulty gas boiler. It rudely reminds all landlords to carry out their obligations to provide a safe environment for their tenants and their own families for that matter.

    Apparently the manager and two maintenance staff from the Louis Corcyra Beach Hotel in Corfu have been charged with manslaughter. I expect more charges will follow. I really hope that the matter is brought to a successful conclusion with the punishment of those responsible. And then after that sue them and the hotel for everything they've got.

    Message to the Greek prosecutors: Don't let them slip away.

    #2
    Originally posted by Poppy View Post
    I felt absolute horror followed by anger when I learned that the family in Corfu were poisoned by carbon monoxide from a faulty gas boiler. It rudely reminds all landlords to carry out their obligations to provide a safe environment for their tenants and their own families for that matter.

    Apparently the manager and two maintenance staff from the Louis Corcyra Beach Hotel in Corfu have been charged with manslaughter. I expect more charges will follow. I really hope that the matter is brought to a successful conclusion with the punishment of those responsible. And then after that sue them and the hotel for everything they've got.

    Message to the Greek prosecutors: Don't let them slip away.
    I agree: and it can happen here too.
    When my home c/htg. boiler stopped working this summer, the engineer pointed out that its innards were clogged with soot- so I could also have been CO-affected, although I never felt any deoxidation effects.
    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

    Comment


      #3
      The accused should also include the travel company who rented these apartments.

      Many people only consider cost - cheaper the better.

      I wish people would accept that quality comes at a price. Paying 1p for a flight to Paris may seem a bargain but I would rather pay a fair price for a quality service.

      For landlords and tenants, the rent should reflect the need for safety.

      My thoughts are with the family at this saddest of times. God bless them.

      OG

      Comment


        #4
        Some years ago I spent some time in the offices of a tiny helicopter charter operation. We were somewhat saddened I suppose when a super-rich client tried to insist that we used a single engined helicopter to fly his trip at night (£450 per hour) when the rules and regulations prohibited this and required that we used a twin engined helicopter instead (£900 per hour). The rules were there to protect his safety. We never did that trip for him in the end - I believe he found another operation who were prepared to bend the rules.
        I doubt many landlords here are prepared to bend our rules (it's the ones who don't read Landlord Zone who are) At least our Corgi certificates should prevent such a tragedy occurring, but I have recounted several times where I nearly got caught out when I acquired a property complete with tenant, two gas fires and no Corgi certification.

        P.P.
        Any information given in this post is based on my personal experience as a landlord, what I have learned from this and other boards and elsewhere. It is not to be relied on. Definitive advice is only available from a Solicitor or other appropriately qualified person.

        Comment


          #5
          It is worth remembering at this point that, much like an MOT for your car, the certificate only shows the system is in good condition at the time of the inspection, and you should ensure it does not fall into disrepair during the year. These are indeed tragic circumstances and, given that the police clearly believe the staff were negligent as they have charged them, I sincerely hope that sanctions will be taken against Thomas Cook, as they were supposed to have their own independant checks on this.
          Any posts by myself are my opinion ONLY. They should never be taken as correct or factual without confirmation from a legal professional. All information is given without prejudice or liability.

          Comment


            #6
            Carbon Monoxide detectors are extremely cheap for the stick-on ones and pretty cheap for the battery operated or plug-in ones.

            Compare the cost of a detector with the cost of having a CO problem and there is no argument.

            I suggest to all that you
            a) get a reasonable quality detector/alarm for each property (including your own home!),
            b) install it correctly, and
            c) do a letter for your tenants to sign along the lines of the smoke detector letter on the main LandlordZONE site.

            This way you are providing a means for the tenants to protect themselves, exonerating yourself from any blame if the tenants don't keep the battery up to scratch, and saving yourself and your tenants from any heartache that you would undoubtedly feel if your tenants died because of your negligence, not to mention the massive financial penalties and the likelihood that you'd be done for manslaughter.

            If you haven't already got one, get a CO detector NOW. End of.

            Comment


              #7
              I think it is unfair to jump to conclusion. no one with common sense like to have a dead person on her/s door step. this is indeed a tragic accident that could have been prevented. and we need to learn from mistakes.
              I personally know of a couple who died of CO while taken a bath back in North Africa few years ago. they had everything serviced but sadly they still died and left 2 orphan kids behind. but the law was changed and there are thankfully hardly any cases of that nature anymore so the blame must be collective. in the above case the travel agency the owner the local law and the consumers should all work together to prevent such incidents.
              Here in the Uk thankfully we are far better but does not mean that everyone follow the law. so we need to report anyone who breaks such important laws.
              anything to save a life must be welcome
              Surrey

              very good advise

              Comment


                #8
                Are the Greeks not part of the Europen community and don't they have to comply with Europen gas safety laws? If this is the case then the ministers have not been enforcing them, ( back hands come to mind) We all know that "the rest of Europe" are a bit slow in complying, not like the good old UK Maybe it's wake up time though I doubt it, it would be a nice one for dear old President Tony to have a go at.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by ATI View Post
                  Here in the Uk thankfully we are far better but does not mean that everyone follow the law. so we need to report anyone who breaks such important laws.
                  Absolutely ATI.

                  I can only speak from experience but I would estimate that around 20% of landlords dont have a valid landlords gas safety record for the property they rent out.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Not much better in Malta!

                    Originally posted by red40 View Post
                    I can only speak from experience but I would estimate that around 20% of landlords dont have a valid landlords gas safety record for the property they rent out.
                    That sounds extremely high - where do you come up with that figure from?

                    [Just as an aside: I'm actually on my hols at the moment, staying in an extremely nice villa in Malta - amongst its features are a broadband-connected PC which I've just switched on for the hell of it - argh - why did I do that? sad or what??!! It's by far the best equipped villa I've stayed in over many years of doing this - anyway, my point in mentioning this is that despite the luxury feel, the electrics (there's no gas!) are a total disgrace - the high point for me is the plug socket for the dishwasher / washing machine, whose faceplate is not actually screwed to the wall and is hanging from its cables; and you have to unplug the plug to change between dishwasher and washing machine. And the water feed and waste pipe connections are both mere inches away, fixed to the taps/drain with insulating tape! Funny how different 'rules' seem to apply out here...]

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Ericthelobster View Post
                      That sounds extremely high - where do you come up with that figure from?
                      Quite agree eric it is extremely high, in fact to high.

                      I read this post and thought I would look at my files on my desk and see what percentage the figure is. At the moment its actually 24%, but that is all HMO's.

                      Just a little back ground, at the moment I am dealing mainly with licensing HMO's, on my desk is 139 files/cases. As part of licensing we request to see the LGSR. I send a letter out asking to see the LGSR, obviously the letters are dated and I am amazed that when these records are produced how many LGSR are dated around 2 weeks after my dated letter.

                      Obviously I have to check that this isn't just a coincidence, so I request to see the previous years, which any landlord should know you have to keep. Not one landlord of that 24% has been able to produce the previous years or tell me who the CORGI engineer was or which company they used. So what conclusion would you draw from that?

                      CORGI and the HSE aren't that bothered as far as they are concerned, the landlord now has a valid LGSR, end of story which is fair enough.

                      If there is one thing the new HA2004 does, it gives local authorities more power to request such documents and therefore keep tabs on 'rogue landlords' who blatantly flout the laws of the land and thus tar all landlords with the same brush.

                      Landlords and the LGSR has always been a pet hate of mine and one I do follow up daily with landlords who see fit to try and con me, con their tenants and place their lives at risk.

                      I have LGSR's which have the same serial number on for three years running, tipexed out dates, altered dates, appliances listed which aren't even insitu at the property, landlords who fit their own appliances 'because they thought they could because its their property' and give me a piece of A$ paper with the heading LGSR, the list goes on and on.

                      I should point out that this isn't just HMO licensing I am finding this, this is many of the rented properties I have dealt with over the few years.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        On our own property we had an annual gas inspection of both our boiler and a gas fire (in the living room) Both appliances had been installed by British Gas.

                        The independent Corgi engineer refused condemned the gas fire because of alleged downdraught was preventing the escape of fumes. Being a back up for the central heating system the gas fire it is seldom used.

                        A British Gas engineer reinspected the fire and passed it stating that the original inspector had not applied the tests in accordance with manufacturers recommendations.

                        On the basis of the advice here I reckon we should have double insurance and install a carbon monoxide detector!!

                        Might even get one for our tenant although the gas cooker and boiler (subject of a Corgi/Landlord annual inspection certificate) are well away from living and sleeping areas.

                        Legally the holiday Company in the UK will be responsible for any failures or negligence on their part that might have contributed to these deaths by criminal negligence in Corfu.
                        Vic - wicked landlord
                        Any advice or suggestions given in my posts are intended for guidance only and not a substitute for completing full searches on this forum, having regard to the advice of others, or seeking appropriate professional opinion.
                        Without Plain English Codes of Practice and easy to complete Prescribed Forms the current law is too complex and is thus neither fair to good tenants nor good landlords.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I can see how this can happen: In my holiday cottage there is an open fireplace in the living room. I know that sometimes I can light a fire and everything will be O.K. but if the wind happens to be blowing in the wrong direction, the cottage fills with smoke due to the flue downdraft and you just have to put the fire out and switch on the electric one!
                          Now if a gas fire was fitted here, I can see Corgi inspector A checking the flue as they do with a smoke candle and will find everything O.K.
                          The following day, with the wind blowing in the wrong direction, I can forsee Corgi inspector B condemming the installation. Thus I would never consider fitting a gas fire here for obvious reasons. I know that I am not the only person who owns a property with a "dodgey" chimney - just think back to the old days before central heating. On viewing a house, one thing you always did was to inspect the other chimneys in the locality. If they were cowled you asked the owner if they had chimney problems. Occasionally a red face was all the information you needed!

                          P.P.
                          Last edited by P.Pilcher; 03-11-2006, 14:57 PM. Reason: typo
                          Any information given in this post is based on my personal experience as a landlord, what I have learned from this and other boards and elsewhere. It is not to be relied on. Definitive advice is only available from a Solicitor or other appropriately qualified person.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            My BTL is all-electric. I have a Landlord's inspection certificate and smoke alarm installed.

                            I have heard of people who have work done by people claiming to be CORGI-registered but who were not.

                            How do you know for sure that someone is CORGI-registered?

                            We should be able to estimate how many homes are rented, how many have gas installations. Subtract from this the number of CORGI certificates issued to Landlords and the %age could be determined.

                            OG

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by over graced
                              How do you know for sure that someone is CORGI-registered?
                              Easy. Find out using the CORGI website.

                              Comment

                              Latest Activity

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X